Would George Wallace have signed the Civil Rights Act?
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  Would George Wallace have signed the Civil Rights Act?
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Author Topic: Would George Wallace have signed the Civil Rights Act?  (Read 2512 times)
Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« on: August 30, 2014, 12:09:32 AM »

The CRA was less the result of conscious action by LBJ than it was action on the streets by activists who risked their lives to see it become a reality. Any person in office who didn't sign off on that risked political suicide, which is something I think LBJ readily understood.

Ugh, this is also true.

I guess even George Wallace would've signed it if he was elected in 1960.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 12:16:32 AM »

No. Nixon would've, Ike would've, JFK obviously would've, but to think George Wallace would at that time is a huge stretch.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 12:22:44 AM »

Perhaps, as he only supported racist policies because it was politically convenient. That said, I find a hard time imagining a situation where signing it wouldn't backfire on a theoretical President Wallace who was most likely elected because of the south.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 12:24:33 AM »

If elected in 1960? Not a chance in hell.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2014, 12:52:51 AM »

I find it unlikely that George Wallace would have given up his acting career to go into politics, and besides, he was no Ronald Reagan who had been a legit movie star.  It's hard to see how he could parlayed his role as Commando Cody in Radar Men from the Moon into a political career that would get him into the White House a mere eight years later.

Oh, you don't mean that George Wallace, you mean the politician who lost the 1958 race for Governor of Alabama in part because he had the endorsement of the NAACP?  Even if he'd won, it's hard to see him becoming President just two years later.  Maybe Vice President as a means to shore up Southern support for the Democratic ticket, but that's really a longshot, plus it probably butterflies away Kennedy's fateful trip to Dallas or at the very least what happened that day.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
« Edited: August 30, 2014, 10:04:08 AM by Mechaman »

Perhaps, as he only supported racist policies because it was politically convenient. That said, I find a hard time imagining a situation where signing it wouldn't backfire on a theoretical President Wallace who was most likely elected because of the south.

I find it funny how everyone ignores the first fact you mentioned.  George Wallace lost his first major race because he had the support of the NAACP and was seen as "too liberal".  He was LBJ if LBJ had an Alabama residence instead of a Texas one.  The man was worse than a genuine racist in my opinion.  He was a principleless hack, much like our real life 36th President of the US.

Thus why I believe he would be more inclined to sign off on Civil Rights legislation in 1964 when opposing so as the US President would be political suicide (as the TNF quote showed).  Events up to that point had reached a point to where any support for Jim Crow on the national level would doom any president, regardless if they are Democratic or Republican.  The point where they started firehosing protestors and other sh*t is when it became unacceptable to the vast majority of Americans, which was before the 1964 election.

Maybe saying he would sign off on it if elected in 1960 was a stretch (given that a President Wallace in 1960 could result in some butterflies that impact the progress of the Civil Rights movement), but I think it's hard to see the man he actually was (as opposed to his public perception, which was more a result of events that took place while he was a state/local Alabama politician and not a national one)) opposing it just to please some old homeboys in Alabama who might not have liked him in the first place at the cost of any hope of being re-elected.  Especially if he was the VP of Kennedy or some other Northern Democrat.

Face it, your hero LBJ was just as much of a racist scumbag who only changed his position on things like the economy and Civil Rights because he was doomed without the Kennedy Coalition.

Really, you guys could use a class in psychology.  Here is a relevant video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97xN3yQH5zw
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 10:05:26 AM »

Face it, your hero LBJ was just as much of a racist scumbag who only changed his position on things like the economy and Civil Rights because he was doomed without the Kennedy Coalition.

But who cares why people do good things?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 10:33:48 AM »

Face it, your hero LBJ was just as much of a racist scumbag who only changed his position on things like the economy and Civil Rights because he was doomed without the Kennedy Coalition.

But who cares why people do good things?

My main point is more of a criticism of the accepted "Great Man" meme that many seem to buy into more than anything.
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TNF
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 10:45:01 AM »

Well, given that he was pro-civil rights in 1958...
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2014, 01:07:34 PM »

Well, given that he was pro-civil rights in 1958...
^^
He ran as a racial moderate in 1958. Had he won, and got on the ticket with JFK in 1960 and then took office in 1963, he very well might have signed it.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2014, 02:01:21 PM »

Of course not, Wallace went over to the dark side after he lost that first gubernatorial campaign.  Btw, signing the civil rights act was a major political risk in the short-term.  And even if it weren't, no matter how loathe certain True Leftists are to admit it, Johnson deserves a great deal of credit for its passage.  Also the idea that Johnson's actual views on civil rights were the ones he had as Senator rather than when he became President is pretty ridiculous.  I know some folks like everyone to be neatly divided into clear FFs and clear HPs, but Johnson really was almost exactly at the intersection of the two and overall he probably did more good than bad (which isn't to downplay the fact that he did some pretty awful stuff).
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IceSpear
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2014, 07:13:05 PM »

No (sane)
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2014, 01:17:03 PM »

Fact: LBJ was a teacher at a school consisting mostly of Mexicans. He couldn't have only signed it for political reasons (although that was part of the reasoning behind his Civil Rights legislation, it was far from the only reason)
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 01:31:58 PM »

Well, given that he was pro-civil rights in 1958...
^^
He ran as a racial moderate in 1958. Had he won, and got on the ticket with JFK in 1960 and then took office in 1963, he very well might have signed it.

Sounds like some good timeline fodder.
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King
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2014, 04:02:47 PM »

Despite LBJ's Southern gentleman racism, he believed in his heart that non-whites still had rights to not live in poverty and have access to public education and healthcare.

I'd take a racist like LBJ over a completely non-racist Randite any day.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2014, 04:08:23 PM »

Obamanation wouldn't have.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2014, 04:12:37 PM »

1958 George Wallace? Maybe. Post-1958 Wallace? Lol.
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Illuminati Blood Drinker
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2014, 05:22:25 PM »

Given LBJ never gave a speech where he demanded "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever", and in fact fought for Civil Rights + elimination of poverty from day 1 of his Presidency, I think comparisons between him and Wallace are, shall we say, lacking in intellectual ability.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2014, 07:53:52 PM »

Given LBJ never gave a speech where he demanded "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever", and in fact fought for Civil Rights + elimination of poverty from day 1 of his Presidency, I think comparisons between him and Wallace are, shall we say, lacking in intellectual ability.
Says the guy who hasn't noticed any of the posts about the 1958 Wallace verse the 1962 Wallace Roll Eyes. Wallace was for Wallace above all, just like LBJ. Their actions-signing the CRA or standing in the school house day-still doesn't change the person. Politicians will always practice politics after all.
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King
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2014, 08:15:34 PM »
« Edited: September 02, 2014, 08:19:05 PM by King »

Another foolish aspect is the idea that any other President beside Johnson would've been even able to sign the Civil Rights Act. Johnson rammed it through on savvy and swindle. A nice guy from the North like Kennedy would not have gotten it done. Nixon wouldn't have bothered. It might not have been law until the Carter Administration if it weren't for LBJ and who knows then with how much Carter relied on Southern support. Would Reagan have bothered? Bush Sr. have the stones?

I mean, just thinking about the domino effect of Presidents and Congresses after LBJ and honestly the can could've been kicked way to the 1990s and set this country back immensely.
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bore
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2014, 08:31:24 AM »

Face it, your hero LBJ was just as much of a racist scumbag who only changed his position on things like the economy and Civil Rights because he was doomed without the Kennedy Coalition.

But who cares why people do good things?

People definitely care about why people do bad things (manslaughter/murder), so it only seems fair to do the same for good things.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2014, 11:36:09 AM »

Face it, your hero LBJ was just as much of a racist scumbag who only changed his position on things like the economy and Civil Rights because he was doomed without the Kennedy Coalition.

But who cares why people do good things?

People definitely care about why people do bad things (manslaughter/murder), so it only seems fair to do the same for good things.

Good luck getting anything done with that attitude Tongue
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2014, 12:03:23 PM »

Another foolish aspect is the idea that any other President beside Johnson would've been even able to sign the Civil Rights Act. Johnson rammed it through on savvy and swindle. A nice guy from the North like Kennedy would not have gotten it done. Nixon wouldn't have bothered. It might not have been law until the Carter Administration if it weren't for LBJ and who knows then with how much Carter relied on Southern support. Would Reagan have bothered? Bush Sr. have the stones?

I mean, just thinking about the domino effect of Presidents and Congresses after LBJ and honestly the can could've been kicked way to the 1990s and set this country back immensely.

The fake blue avatar strikes again!  Every POTUS you named would have signed it.  LBJ's racial hero status in your post is comical.  Even if you're making the asinine assertion that Johnson, a personally racist Southern Democrat who'd expressed sympathies toward segregation as a Senator, was either somehow more eager for racial equality or more able to swing his party than the others you mentioned (again, both are ridiculous), you're completely ignoring the fact that any non-Southern President would have certainly capitalized on the political momentum to sign it by 1964.
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King
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2014, 03:12:17 PM »
« Edited: September 03, 2014, 03:18:01 PM by King »

I'm not questioning about whether they would have signed it, I'm questioning whether they would have fought tooth and nail to have a bill to sign.  You have to have a Civil Rights Act passed in order for a President to sign it. LBJ got it done.

Momentum in terms of support means nothing in Washington, there's momentum to legalize marijuana and raise the minimum wage at the moment, but it's not happening in DC. The political momentum LBJ had was Kennedy's assassination, which neither Kennedy nor Nixon nor Eisenhower nor Stevenson would have had it if they were President in 1964. LBJ was a man for his time, plain and simple.

It's difficult to say if Carter, Reagan, or Bush would've signed either because it's difficult to say what America would be without it. The Civil Rights Act dissolved the New Deal Coalition in the South. It changed Congress and Presidential politics after it.

LBJ and George W Bush are the only two Presidents of the last 50 years to have a relatively good relationship with their Congress. That means something with landmark legislation like the CRA.
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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2014, 01:54:29 PM »

1958 George Wallace? Maybe. Post-1958 Wallace? Lol.
I even doubt that the George Wallace of 1958 would have signed it into law to be honest with you.
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