If USA/Russia/China are the 3 most powerful countries, who are 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 ?

[Blue3]

I think it would be safe to say that the United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the People's Republic of China are the most powerful and influential countries in the world right now.

If we take that as a given... which countries are #4-10?

[Middle-aged Europe]

United Kingdom, France, Japan, Germany, India, Brazil, Italy.

Roughly, but necessarily, in that order. The most arguable of those is perhaps Italy. And it depends on what do you mean with "most powerful" exactly. Most powerful by what? Russia has the third-largest military budget in the world, but its economy is weaker than Brazil's.

However, the ten countries mentioned here have the ten largest economies at the moment and also happen to be among the twelve countries with the largest military budgets (missing are Saudi Arabia and South Korea).

[dead0man]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.  We could argue the order, obviously...and the 10th spot (lots of contenders).  I'd put Germany and Japan over the UK and France and I probably wouldn't have Italy on the list, but I'm not really sure who should replace it.

[ag]

You are exaggerating the true power of Russia. Except in terms of the number of nukes, it is not that powerful at all. Mostly, it suffers from illusions of power.

[dead0man]

Oh yeah, I was going to address that too and forgot.  Russia has a lot of aging nukes and are good at chest thumping, but it's a hollow chest.  They are sitting on a lot of energy, but the world's energy needs are changing and not in a direction that benefits the bear.  Even in it's best days of the Soviet Union, it was just a shell, now it's a shell of a shell.



(and this is a lot less fun with no RussiaSTRONG! posters here)

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

lol, Germany and Japan might be the less influential countries in the world...

Both have rather inexistant diplomacies, Japan traditionally is a shut country wich isn't fully independent from the US geostrategically, and Germany has been threatened by words that could come out of its mouth since the end of WW2, they are the most powerful to apologize, over and over, at best (actually).

Those both merely have an economy that managed to make good exports, I'm not sure it's the same main thing we think about when it comes to 'be powerful'.

At best Germany became the center of Europe, but still they really only bother economical matters, and have given up for all the rest. And that's actually a pity, they would really have a role to play in center-eastern Europe. When those will try to make up their mind too, that gonna help...

UK never really managed to quit their role of ever puppets of the US in which they enterred at the end of WW2 too (or maybe after the Suez Canal War?).

And then who is making the geopolitical job in Europe?

The fanciest ones indeed. The FF. The Friggin French.

We have been freaking alone in Mali.

Ok, the big part of Western Africa traditionally is part of French influence, at all levels, and the French army would definitely have the best experience to act there, both culturally and technically, and might be the only one to be able to project quick foreign interventions abroad after the US.

Heck, according to a serious French journalist who was in Washington administrations when all of this happened, Americans there were quite admirative of French operations, they would have said that US are quite unable to launch a significant ground  operation under 30.000 men, which would confirm the reputation of Americans...SHOOT EVERYTHING, and then talk, or something like that.

But whatever, point being, that no other European countries came to give a hand, even when French had taken a good enough control on the place and that our army was quite well accepted, and sometimes looked even very asked.

Oh sorry, I'm forgetting the tens of Georgians and Latvians who proposed to give a hand, maybe you should give them a place in your list...

To be fair there, our best, and strong enough, allies were Tchadian soldiers.

And same for the new operation of surveillance of that big Western part of Sahara-Sahel set by France, once again we can only count on Western African countries...

And this while what happens in Africa should be a concern for Europe as a whole.

And same for the other geopolitical aspects:

Who are the only ones to have independent military satellites in Europe?

France.

Who has offered Space to Europe and is still maintaining most of the Space installation there?

France.

Who are the only ones to have developped a fully independent nuke button?

France.

(according to what I heard UK ones are partly relying on US technologies)

Who has the biggest diplomacy in the world after the US?

You guessed it.

In short the outcome of WW2 offered a totally different paradigm than the preceding one, where the weakest one of the 'big 3' of Europe before that war became the most independent and with the most developped tools. Maybe one thing explaining the other one.

Along with the fact that historically France really is the European country of which the notion of independence and of nation state has been the most developped, even before the Révolution. Beside the Brits, but living on an island makes it particular....

And then you have Germany, giving insane economical lessons to everyone because of their mental blocking coming from the 1930s, and benefits of all the job made here without having to spend a lot of money.

Seems since the last govt, Germans decided to try to say a few words on the geopolitical stage, but still that's shy. They are only realizing they are able to speak, maybe someday they will begin to make sentences. One more time, it would be welcomed. That might be one of the few good things that may come out of all that brilliant mess set on the East right now.

I'd share Fabius opinion, diplomacy and geopolitics really is the only last thing in which this country can still do something worthy.

As for Italy, I'd like to have them being able to do something, especially in the Mediterranean, but the only thing I'd could say about them would be 'lol' .

Though they are facing an hard time, being totally abandoned by other European countries to face thousands of refugees coming since the Arab revolutions from Africa, Levant, and more. One more time no other European country, neither the EU institution is trying to give a hand there or even to try to change the totally unfair rules to manage immigration in the continent.

Some minds really need to be made up in this 'continent'...

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think there is a certain argument that Turkey could be allowed into the "most powerful" countries cabal, mainly due to its geographic location more than anything else.

[Stranger in a strange land]

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

1. USA




2. China





3. Russia
4 (tie). France, Germany, India
7 (tie). Japan, UK




9. Brazil
10. South Korea

[dead0man]

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

1. USA




2. China

The problem with putting the PRC so high is that they don't really deserve it.  HUGE internal issues.  Issues much harder to overcome than anything the other 9 might have to deal with.  They have a large military that is rapidly improving, but it's still a long LONG way behind the West in tech and even Russia.  (stealing tech sounds good on paper and even occasionally works out for the thief, but more often then not, in actual use they are almost never as good as the thing copied and often quite inferior)  They can't project the sh**tty power they do have.  And they don't have any friends that aren't bigger basket cases than they are.

[ingemann]

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

1. USA




2. China

The problem with putting the PRC so high is that they don't really deserve it.  HUGE internal issues.  Issues much harder to overcome than anything the other 9 might have to deal with.  They have a large military that is rapidly improving, but it's still a long LONG way behind the West in tech and even Russia.  (stealing tech sounds good on paper and even occasionally works out for the thief, but more often then not, in actual use they are almost never as good as the thing copied and often quite inferior)  They can't project the sh**tty power they do have.  And they don't have any friends that aren't bigger basket cases than they are.

I agree to degree, there are a lot of thing indicating that PRC are a giant with feet of clay, but as long as they have not proven their weakness, they get a strong position because people think they're strong.

[ingemann]

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

3. Russia
4 (tie). France, Germany, India
7 (tie). Japan, UK

India doesn't belong in that category, they're weaker, I'm not sure I would place them above Italy. As for the position of Japan, Germany UK and France, I think it's really unclear who are strongest.
If we talk about economic power Japan are biggest, but through the German position in EU, they're more economic powerful. France and UK are somewhat equal here.
Political well I think Germany wins, no one wish to offend them, so most states listen to Germany when they talk, most of EU to large extent looks to Germany before they act. The political power of France and UK are weaker but still signifacant. Japan are likely the weakest on this
Military UK and France are around equal and both are miles ahead of Germany and Japan. Of course Germany doesn't need to have the projective power of UK and France, simply because they have fewer of the kind of interest, where they need to intervene across the world.

So I would place them with Germany first, France and UK sharing their position as the 5th strongest powers in the world, and Japan below them.

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Neither of these states belong above Italy.

[TDAS04]

1.  USA




2.  China

3.  Russia


4.  UK
5.  France
6.  Japan
7.  Germany

8.  India
9.  Italy
10.  Brazil

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

1. USA
2. China
3. Germany
4. Russia
5. France
6. UK
7. Japan
8. India
9. Saudi Arabia
10. Turkey

[ingemann]

I think there is a certain argument that Turkey could be allowed into the "most powerful" countries cabal, mainly due to its geographic location more than anything else.

Indonesia hae a higher population, a higher GDP and a better strategic position, if we made that argument.

Of course the fact that Turkey have failed through 40 years to put down the revolt which are de facto a convetional war of bunch of mountain peasants, also doesn't give me a great faith in putting them in the top 10.

[Stranger in a strange land]

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

1. USA




2. China

The problem with putting the PRC so high is that they don't really deserve it.  HUGE internal issues.  Issues much harder to overcome than anything the other 9 might have to deal with.  They have a large military that is rapidly improving, but it's still a long LONG way behind the West in tech and even Russia.  (stealing tech sounds good on paper and even occasionally works out for the thief, but more often then not, in actual use they are almost never as good as the thing copied and often quite inferior)  They can't project the sh**tty power they do have.  And they don't have any friends that aren't bigger basket cases than they are.

China has the world's second largest economy, largest industrial base, and the world's largest population, which unlike 30 years ago, is now reasonably well-educated and healthy by global standards. I certainly agree that they have a lot of internal issues (the demographic bomb their rulers planted by failing to repeal the One Child Policy in time is at the top of the list, and their environmental problems are nothing to scoff at either), but so do all the other major powers. None of the other major powers, save the US, can match China in economic power.

Putin's Russia, like the Soviet Union and Russian Empire before it, appears vastly more powerful than it actually is. Without nuclear weapons, it probably wouldn't even be in the Top 10. France and the UK still have projection power left over from their days of Empire (though France more than the UK these days), though both are small compared to China. Germany ranks as high as it does due to its dominance within the EU. On that note, if the EU were one country, it would be more powerful than China, but it doesn't have a common foreign or defense policy, so it isn't.

India still punches below its weight, but it's a rising economic power, has nukes, and has pretty good strategic reach.

China is far more powerful than Russia.

My ranking would look something like this:

3. Russia
4 (tie). France, Germany, India
7 (tie). Japan, UK

India doesn't belong in that category, they're weaker, I'm not sure I would place them above Italy. As for the position of Japan, Germany UK and France, I think it's really unclear who are strongest.
If we talk about economic power Japan are biggest, but through the German position in EU, they're more economic powerful. France and UK are somewhat equal here.
Political well I think Germany wins, no one wish to offend them, so most states listen to Germany when they talk, most of EU to large extent looks to Germany before they act. The political power of France and UK are weaker but still signifacant. Japan are likely the weakest on this
Military UK and France are around equal and both are miles ahead of Germany and Japan. Of course Germany doesn't need to have the projective power of UK and France, simply because they have fewer of the kind of interest, where they need to intervene across the world.

So I would place them with Germany first, France and UK sharing their position as the 5th strongest powers in the world, and Japan below them.

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Neither of these states belong above Italy.

Brazil dominates its region, and South Korea is an economic powerhouse and is a major innovator for a country of its size. Italy is locked in demographic and political decline and suffers from chronic corruption, poor leadership, and dysfunctional government.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Just for fun, let's try to make a case for Italy:

9th largest GDP and 11th largest military budget in the world. Their navy has two (albeit small) aircraft carriers. They're home to Fiat and Fiat owns Chrysler. ENI, one of the top 10 oil companies in the world, is Italian.


Of course, there are probably as many arguments against Italy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

1. US
2. China
3. Russia
4. France
5. Germany
6. UK
7. Japan
8. India
9. Brazil
10. Italy

[ingemann]

Brazil dominates its region, and South Korea is an economic powerhouse and is a major innovator for a country of its size. Italy is locked in demographic and political decline and suffers from chronic corruption, poor leadership, and dysfunctional government.

South Korea have a lower birth rate than Italy, lower population, a lower GDP both as a sum and per capita, and yes Italy is also a economic power house, even with the trouble they have. South Korea do well, for a non European or North American country, but not compared to West Europe, USA or Canada.
Also if we look Transparency Internation, South Korea score 55 points (they're number 46 out of 177 countries), while Italy score 43 points (they're number 69), yes South Korea are less corrupt than Italy, but still they should really not brag about where they lies on that list.

Brazil on the other hand suffer from the fact that they primary sell natural resources, they have little ability to project power, neither hard or soft.

[Donerail]

1. US
2. China
3. Russia
4. France
5. Germany
6. Japan
7. India
8. Brazil
9. UK
10. Canada
11. Italy

Undecided on Canada or Italy in the 10 slot.

[Gustaf]

I would not put Italy in the top 10. They're politically paralyzed and a very long history of failing at everything they try politically.

[Blue3]

So there seems to be a rough consensus that
Germany, France, the UK, Japan, India, and Brazil are in the top 10.

(Funny that it's still the major powers of World War II, plus only China/India/Brazil)

If the European Union ever became a true, unified state, I wonder what the top 10 would look like then...

[Middle-aged Europe]

So there seems to be a rough consensus that
Germany, France, the UK, Japan, India, and Brazil are in the top 10.

(Funny that it's still the major powers of World War II, plus only China/India/Brazil)

Well, if you do include Italy, the ten most powerful nations in the year 2014 basically consist of China and the Eight-Nation Alliance that put down the Boxer Rebellion back in 1900. Minus Austria-Hungary, and plus Brazil and India (the latter being a part of the UK at the time, with Indian troops fighting in China ).

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Unimog]

1 USA
2 PRC
3 Russia
4 India
5 Brazil
6 Indonesia
7 EU (incl. F, D, I; excl UK)
8 UK
9 Suisse (financial powerhouse; home of the red cross)
10 Vatican (strong international player)

[dead0man]

If you put the EU as one, combining Germany, France, Italy and the rest, it is easily number 2.  The PRC and Russia are fighting for a far distant third.

[Niemeyerite]

People, France isn't more powerful than Germany.