Who is guilty of felony murder in these scenarios?
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  Who is guilty of felony murder in these scenarios?
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Question: Who is guilty of felony murder in these scenarios?
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Person C
 
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Author Topic: Who is guilty of felony murder in these scenarios?  (Read 5332 times)
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BRTD
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« on: August 30, 2014, 10:00:45 PM »

Two scenarios:

1-Person A is the driver for a drug distributor (Person B). He drives Person B to a location to meet a trafficker bringing in some products. Person B gets into an argument over payment with the trafficker who gets very angry and the trafficker pulls out a gun and starts threatening him. Person B kills him with his own gun.

2-Person C is a drug dealer who sells illegal drugs for which possession is a felony to a woman at a party who is Person D. When leaving the party Person D is quite inebriated on the drugs and enters a dark road where she is assaulted by a rapist. Despite her state she's able to fight back and ends up killing the rapist in self defense.

The fact that all of them could be is an example of how messed up felony murder statutes can be.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 11:39:09 PM »

I don't understand your reasoning.  Person A and Person C didn't kill anyone so how could they be guilty of murder?  Person B and Person D both committed non-violent felonies and I think felony murder only applies to violent felonies like rape and arson.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's the rule.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 03:03:12 AM »

Person B is the only one who conceivably ought to be guilty of murder under the law, and even then he'd have to be a non-celebrity minority to be in any danger of actually being convicted.

Person A would need to be involved in the argument itself to be linked by the conspiracy rationale.

The drug possession and the attempted rape are legally unrelated actions, so even if a prosecutor were stupid and sick enough to charge person D with murder for her self-defense, there's no felony conspiracy to link person C to the "crime".
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BRTD
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 11:10:41 AM »

I don't understand your reasoning.  Person A and Person C didn't kill anyone so how could they be guilty of murder?  Person B and Person D both committed non-violent felonies and I think felony murder only applies to violent felonies like rape and arson.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's the rule.

There's been cases of people who didn't kill anyone being charged with felony murder. Things like two accomplices burglarize a house, the homeowner catches them and shoots one who dies, the surviving one is tried for the murder of his accomplice since the law states that they are responsible for any death done in commission of a felony.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 11:15:38 AM »

I don't understand your reasoning.  Person A and Person C didn't kill anyone so how could they be guilty of murder?  Person B and Person D both committed non-violent felonies and I think felony murder only applies to violent felonies like rape and arson.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's the rule.

There's been cases of people who didn't kill anyone being charged with felony murder. Things like two accomplices burglarize a house, the homeowner catches them and shoots one who dies, the surviving one is tried for the murder of his accomplice since the law states that they are responsible for any death done in commission of a felony.

That's not felony murder though.  That's accomplice liability which can be unfair by itself.  I think that only counts for those situations like a killing during an arson or rape.

In any case, I agree that felony murder is a ridiculous law.
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angus
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 03:05:19 PM »

B only.

D is also a killer but that seems like manslaughter or something unpremeditated.  B is probably not premeditated either, but killing to end an argument sounds like a more serious crime than killing in self-defense.  I could see a good argument coming from the prosecution about making it felony murder.
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Person Man
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 09:17:53 PM »

I would definitely think B. I don't really see it any connection to the rapist's death with C and D's felonies. In many states, it could be A. Is a getaway driver for a robbery where someone is killed guilty of felony murder? You could claim that A and B's conspiracy didn't involve them conspiring to kill the trafficker but they were all conspirators in a felony. Some states make responsible conspirators of a felony in the death of their coconspirators.
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jfern
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2014, 12:04:28 AM »

I'd say a manslaughter charge for Person B, and no murder or manslaughter for the rest.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2014, 07:33:19 AM »

BRTD, do you actually know of statutes in states that would allow all 4 to be prosecuted, or are you just basing these scenarios on what you think felony murder statutes say? If it's the former, I'm curious to know those states.
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Cory
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2014, 07:15:00 PM »

The second example doesn't even make sense. Neither of them is guilty of murder obviously. I don't see how dealing drugs to someone could in any way link you to them killing someone in self-defense.
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Badger
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 08:42:55 PM »

BRTD, do you actually know of statutes in states that would allow all 4 to be prosecuted, or are you just basing these scenarios on what you think felony murder statutes say? If it's the former, I'm curious to know those states.

Clearly the latter, I'd say.
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