Gay teen attacked by family (VIDEO)
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Adam Griffin
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« on: September 01, 2014, 05:07:18 AM »

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afleitch
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 06:14:04 AM »

What is interesting about this is that it's the sort of 'conversation' that a lot of people face behind closed doors but is never captured for the world to see. Christianity/faith can be an enabler of hate; something that is clung to that overrides common sense and even family, with dark and disturbing consequences.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 06:55:16 AM »

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 08:21:35 AM »

Makes me so sick that people still actually feel this way.
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memphis
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 09:22:13 AM »

It's very sad when people choose their religion over their family. But millions do every day.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 09:53:56 AM »

I was faster: Smiley

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=197986
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KCDem
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 10:05:19 AM »

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.
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Except many "Christians" in this country are just like this family: God-fearing, people-hating troglodytes.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 10:12:14 AM »
« Edited: September 01, 2014, 10:18:38 AM by IceSpear »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?
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Flake
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 11:08:32 AM »

I just read some of the comments on youtube, There are truly disgusting people out there.
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Mordecai
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.
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True Christianism.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 12:47:38 PM »

Jesus Christ, people have donated $100,000 in monies to this guy. I mean, seriously... seriously? It almost feels staged...

..........you're joking, right?
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Flake
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 12:53:51 PM »

Jesus Christ, people have donated $100,000 in monies to this guy. I mean, seriously... seriously? It almost feels staged...

At least he has enough to rent an apartment/buy a cheap house or to pay for college expenses. People helped someone in need, and this man should feel thankful for that.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 02:26:27 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.
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Except many "Christians" in this country are just like this family: God-fearing, people-hating troglodytes.

Unfortunately true, but not just in this country.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2014, 02:34:44 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2014, 02:42:36 PM »

Fundamentalism can be a very dangerous thing. These people have got to think how insane they are to disown one of their own because of the way they are developed, and the belief that he made a choice to be this way. She said in the video that the word of god trumps any kind of science, so there's no reasoning with them. Good for him to get $100K to survive on his own, he certainly doesn't deserve that treatment from his "family".
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 02:47:25 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
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Torie
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 04:40:30 PM »

The real thing that is sad is folks who trawl the Bible, with all of its inconsistencies, to affix a Godly veneer to their own prejudices fashioned from the fruits of their culling. And when whenever that veneer gets in the way of what they really want to do, they tend not to hesitate to go to an "interior decorator" to secure a new veneer, for their new agenda. Color me cynical. Most folks (well at least a majority) are just unable to separate their own prejudices, subjective preferences, etc., from what is empirically based.  They want it all. In short, my guess, is that a person's personal theology tends often to be a function of reverse engineering - with the theology fitting their preferred world view, rather than visa versa.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2014, 06:39:03 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 07:17:02 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 07:25:44 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.

My point is obvious. A child without a sex drive can't choose to be sexually attracted to men, and therefore a child can't choose to be gay. Of course, even an adolescent/adult with a sex drive can't change their preference, but that's beside the point. To act as if a child can make the conscious choice to select their sexual orientation when they hardly know anything about sex is idiotic.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 07:54:45 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.

My point is obvious. A child without a sex drive can't choose to be sexually attracted to men, and therefore a child can't choose to be gay. Of course, even an adolescent/adult with a sex drive can't change their preference, but that's beside the point. To act as if a child can make the conscious choice to select their sexual orientation when they hardly know anything about sex is idiotic.
I see you've totally missed my point.  (You also may be assuming that I think the hetero/bi/homo distinction is a choice, which I don't.)  Let me try restating my point in other terms. While for obvious reasons as a society we focus upon the sexual aspects of orientation, the fact that it forms before the sex drive does indicates it would probably be more apt to call it gender orientation.  Therefore for those who think gender orientation is a choice, there is no logical inconsistency involved in them thinking such a choice may be made while one is still a prepubescent child.  That they are mistaken in thinking it is a choice is a factual error, not a logical error.

(Yes, I'm aware that gender orientation is usually used as a synonym of gender identity.  As a language, English still hasn't fully come to terms with terminology relating to gay LGB LGBT LGBTQ topics and probably won't for some time to come.)
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IceSpear
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2014, 08:13:20 PM »

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.
ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.

My point is obvious. A child without a sex drive can't choose to be sexually attracted to men, and therefore a child can't choose to be gay. Of course, even an adolescent/adult with a sex drive can't change their preference, but that's beside the point. To act as if a child can make the conscious choice to select their sexual orientation when they hardly know anything about sex is idiotic.
I see you've totally missed my point.  (You also may be assuming that I think the hetero/bi/homo distinction is a choice, which I don't.)  Let me try restating my point in other terms. While for obvious reasons as a society we focus upon the sexual aspects of orientation, the fact that it forms before the sex drive does indicates it would probably be more apt to call it gender orientation.  Therefore for those who think gender orientation is a choice, there is no logical inconsistency involved in them thinking such a choice may be made while one is still a prepubescent child.  That they are mistaken in thinking it is a choice is a factual error, not a logical error.

(Yes, I'm aware that gender orientation is usually used as a synonym of gender identity.  As a language, English still hasn't fully come to terms with terminology relating to gay LGB LGBT LGBTQ topics and probably won't for some time to come.)

I understood your point. It's still ridiculous to think that a young child could possibly make a "choice" in such a matter even if you disregard the sexual attraction. And even if we apply your alternative label/definition, I highly doubt the ignorant mother is thinking about the issue in such a nuanced way.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 08:35:59 PM »

What are you two arguing about?  I can't make heads or tails of what Ernest is saying here.  Being gay isn't a choice.  Being effeminate or flaming isn't a choice.  That woman in the video is a inhuman monster.  End of story. 
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2014, 10:10:54 PM »

What are you two arguing about?  I can't make heads or tails of what Ernest is saying here.  Being gay isn't a choice.  Being effeminate or flaming isn't a choice.  That woman in the video is a inhuman monster.  End of story. 

I'm not certain what we're arguing about either, since all three of us are in general agreement apparently.  About the only thing I'd disagree with you is over that woman being an inhuman monster.  Unfortunately, she is an all too human monster.  Inhumane, but not inhuman.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2014, 10:16:53 PM »

What are you two arguing about?  I can't make heads or tails of what Ernest is saying here.  Being gay isn't a choice.  Being effeminate or flaming isn't a choice.  That woman in the video is a inhuman monster.  End of story. 

I'm not certain what we're arguing about either, since all three of us are in general agreement apparently.  About the only thing I'd disagree with you is over that woman being an inhuman monster.  Unfortunately, she is an all too human monster.  Inhumane, but not inhuman.

Yeah, whatever.  I can't fathom treating your children like that.  But, I'm Jewish and we're more family-oriented than American Christian people.  Plus, I'm gay so this really breaks my heart.
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