Rank the parties w/ national legislative representation: Ireland
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  Rank the parties w/ national legislative representation: Ireland
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Author Topic: Rank the parties w/ national legislative representation: Ireland  (Read 4447 times)
Phony Moderate
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« on: September 01, 2014, 08:32:13 AM »

Fine Gael
Labour
Fianna Fáil
Sinn Féin
People Before Profit Alliance
Socialist
Workers and Unemployed Action Group

Not including the independent option since that would end up as most's first preference. Tongue

---

1. Workers and Unemployed Action Group
2. People Before Profit Alliance
3. Socialist
4. Labour (yeah, I know)
5. Sinn Féin (ditto)
6. Fine Gael
7. Fianna Fáil
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Anton Kreitzer
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 08:45:57 AM »

1. Fianna Fáil
2. Fine Gael
3. Labour
4. Sinn Féin
5. Socialist
6. People Before Profit Alliance
7. Workers and Unemployed Action Group

Those last three could be in any order though, not fond of any of those parties.
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 11:16:59 AM »

1. Fianna Fáil
2. Fine Gael
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 11:35:50 AM »

How about no?
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 11:36:28 AM »

1) Suicide

2) Phony's list

(It says something when you're forced to put Trots up on top)
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TNF
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 11:40:45 AM »

1. Socialist Party
2. People Before Profit Alliance
3. Workers and Unemployed Action Group
4. Sinn Fein
5. Labour
6. Fianna Fail
7. Fine Gael
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Oakvale
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 12:08:02 PM »

This is fairly easy.

1. Labour
2. Fine Gael
3. Trots
4. Trots
5. Trots
6. Sinn Fein
7. Fianna Fáil
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 02:30:40 PM »

[1] Labour
[2] Fine Gael
[3] Fianna Fail
[4] Sinn Fein
[5] Workers and Unemployed Action Group
[6] People Before Profit
[7] Socialist Party
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 08:02:05 PM »

[1] Fianna Fail
[2] Fine Gael
[3] Sinn Fein
[4] Labour
[  ] Workers and Unemployed Action Group
[  ] People Before Profit
[  ] Socialist Party

If political parties even matter in Ireland at all, which I'm not sure they do.
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BaconBacon96
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2014, 02:24:13 AM »

1. Labour

2. No

Ireland has some of the worst parties for a developed nation.
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Vega
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2014, 04:07:50 AM »

1. Fine Gael
2. Labour
3. uhhh...
4 . . .

*hits post*

But nah, Fine Gael and Labour are the only half decent parties. Normally in government they come as package deal.
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politicus
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2014, 05:06:37 AM »

Surprised so many like Irish Labour. It is one of the worst SD parties in Europe (or anywhere actually). Also lol at American liberals prefering FG to FF.
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Vega
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2014, 05:27:10 AM »

Also lol at American liberals preferring FG to FF.

Labour comes with them in the deal of voting for FG. So that's why.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 07:55:20 PM »

1. Labour

2. No

Ireland has some of the worst parties for a developed nation.

This.  Gun to my head, if I had to rank all 7 I guess I'd go with oakvale's list.

Surprised so many like Irish Labour. It is one of the worst SD parties in Europe (or anywhere actually). Also lol at American liberals prefering FG to FF.

I wouldn't say that "like" is accurate.  More like "find slightly less objectionable than all the other choices".
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2014, 09:05:32 PM »

Can someone explain what kind of parties these are? (Summarize their ideology in 3-5 words?)
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2014, 09:30:53 PM »

Can someone explain what kind of parties these are? (Summarize their ideology in 3-5 words?)

Fine Gael: Pro-EU Christian democratic party.
Labour: Social democratic centre-left party.
NOTE: FG and Labour tend to form governments, such as the current Irish government, when they have enough seats between them.
Fianna Fáil: Conservative populist party, formed from a split in Sinn Féin back in the 1920s.
Sinn Féin: Left-wing nationalist party, who would like to see the whole of Ireland united under the Republic.
People Before Profit Alliance, Socialist, Workers and Unemployed Action Group: Hard-left.

This is from what I know about Irish politics.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 12:21:37 AM »

Can someone explain what kind of parties these are? (Summarize their ideology in 3-5 words?)

The above explanation is not bad, but for a real understanding you will need some context.

As is tradition when Fianna Fáil is ejected from office in disgrace, the government consists of -

THE NOT FIANNA FÁIL PARTY

NB: These are technically two different parties with dramatically different support bases but in practice they've historically ended up being something of a package deal. It actually makes a little sense to think of the two as tendencies of the great Not FF Party.

Fine Gael: A truly weird party, Fine Gael occasionally seems to be developing something like a coherent ideology only to have some random array of backbenchers confuse the issue by coming out in favour of mandatory euthanasia or banning condoms. Arguably described in the broadest possible terms as "center-right", Fine Gael have historically prided themselves on masturbating about how they are the "party of law and order", based on their ancestor party's role in ending the Civil War during the first government of the Free State.

While one would think this would place FG firmly on the right, it was Fine Gael Taoisigh (Prime Ministers) who crusaded for such shocking ideas as divorce - both under Garrett Fitzgerald in the 80s and successfully under John Burton in the 90s. Party leader (and Taoiseach) Enda Kenny recently stated that he'd campaign for gay marriage, which is faintly remarkable given he's a politician in his mid 60s from rural Mayo, which is roughly comparable to a career party hack from backwoods Kentucky hopping aboard the liberal cause célèbre.

It's ultimately fairly difficult to pin down FG's "ideology" beyond "center-right"-ish since they're always in coalition with the other half of the Not FF Party -

Labour: The third wheel of Irish politics, Labour was told by De Valera to "wait", and did so, and has been a half party ever since, although the second biggest in the Dáil after a record performance in the general election, something largely credited to popular party leader Eamon Gilmore's strong attacks on the dying FF government. Three years later, in classic Irish fashion, Gilmore has resigned, as one of the least popular figures in the country, as Labour's been perceived to roll over for FG and implement fairly severe austerity policies. There's some speculation that new leader Joan Burton can ease the brunt of austerity somewhat - coupled with a gently improving economy - but it's unlikely the party can recover the ground lost to SF.

Because of the all-too-obvious Lib Dems in the UK comparison, Labour are nominally easy to categorise, but in practice most would disagree. They're "social democrats" like every other bland center-left party in Europe, but in practice they're not much more than the liberal wing of Fine Gael. I still vote for them, mind, because the alternatives are...


DE NATURAL PARTY OF GUVERNMENT

Fianna Fáil: They believe in nothing but that is not an issue - they are For The Common People of Ireland. A nominal "republican" party, Fianna Fáil were the largest party in the Dáil for virtually the entire history of the state until they were almost wiped out in 2011. Largely discredited thanks to their established policy of bankrupting the country on a regular basis and everyone slowly realising that corruption on a grand scale was not necessarily something to be dismissed with a shrug, they are currently a rump opposition party with an ineffectual moron as a leader. Their "dramatic recovery" in the past year has consisted of basically performing the same as they did in the 2009 local elections, which at the time was considered a disaster of historic proportions.

Fianna Fáil can be best understood not in terms of "ideology' but as one of the traditional pillars of Irish society that has crumbled in recent years - the other being the Church. Flann O'Brien once suggested replacing the art on postal stamps with traditional scences from Irish life, such as a Fianna Fáil bigwig fixing a job for a relative.

CRIMINALS, TROTS AND OTHER WEIRDOS

Sinn Féin: Half-baked "socialism" and a committed "No to everything" platform has allowed Sinn Féin to go from strength to strength since 2011, with unpopular austerity policies taking their toll on the government and Fianna Fáil mired in being Fianna Fáil, but they are still weighed down a little by their previous policy of shooting their opponents and burying their bodies in unmarked graves. Most polling shows Sinn Féin as one of - or the - most popular party in the country, but it's virtually impossible that they end up leading a government, unless you're Gully and prone to Doom Paul-ing about such things. It is an unfortunate reality that we could end up with a FF/SF "nightmare  coalition", though.

Sinn Féin's ideology involves "republicanism", which means in practice little more than a tedious overuse of the Irish language for no reason and lots of lip service to concepts that generational FF voters in the middle of nowhere will find appealing. It also involves "socialism", which in this instance mostly revolves around saying things like "VOTE FOR REFORM - VOTE NO".

People Before Profit Alliance, Socialist, Workers and Unemployed Action Group: Trots and other hacks of various shades, almost all of whom are long overdue a metaphorical meeting with an ice axe. Part of a hilarious parliamentary technical group.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 07:42:28 AM »

Ftr and just to correct Oakvale, I'm not really Doom Pauling on the prospect of a SF-FF coalition as awful as that sounds, my precise Doom Pauling is in regards to the prospect that no government can form following the next general election leading to the nirvana of the local independent hacks and ward-heelers.

And I refuse to participate here.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 07:53:41 AM »

So given your descriptions, the best thing to do in the poll stations is shooting oneself?
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 10:31:15 AM »

Can someone explain what kind of parties these are? (Summarize their ideology in 3-5 words?)

The above explanation is not bad, but for a real understanding you will need some context.

As is tradition when Fianna Fáil is ejected from office in disgrace, the government consists of -

THE NOT FIANNA FÁIL PARTY

NB: These are technically two different parties with dramatically different support bases but in practice they've historically ended up being something of a package deal. It actually makes a little sense to think of the two as tendencies of the great Not FF Party.

Fine Gael: A truly weird party, Fine Gael occasionally seems to be developing something like a coherent ideology only to have some random array of backbenchers confuse the issue by coming out in favour of mandatory euthanasia or banning condoms. Arguably described in the broadest possible terms as "center-right", Fine Gael have historically prided themselves on masturbating about how they are the "party of law and order", based on their ancestor party's role in ending the Civil War during the first government of the Free State.

While one would think this would place FG firmly on the right, it was Fine Gael Taoisigh (Prime Ministers) who crusaded for such shocking ideas as divorce - both under Garrett Fitzgerald in the 80s and successfully under John Burton in the 90s. Party leader (and Taoiseach) Enda Kenny recently stated that he'd campaign for gay marriage, which is faintly remarkable given he's a politician in his mid 60s from rural Mayo, which is roughly comparable to a career party hack from backwoods Kentucky hopping aboard the liberal cause célèbre.

It's ultimately fairly difficult to pin down FG's "ideology" beyond "center-right"-ish since they're always in coalition with the other half of the Not FF Party -

Labour: The third wheel of Irish politics, Labour was told by De Valera to "wait", and did so, and has been a half party ever since, although the second biggest in the Dáil after a record performance in the general election, something largely credited to popular party leader Eamon Gilmore's strong attacks on the dying FF government. Three years later, in classic Irish fashion, Gilmore has resigned, as one of the least popular figures in the country, as Labour's been perceived to roll over for FG and implement fairly severe austerity policies. There's some speculation that new leader Joan Burton can ease the brunt of austerity somewhat - coupled with a gently improving economy - but it's unlikely the party can recover the ground lost to SF.

Because of the all-too-obvious Lib Dems in the UK comparison, Labour are nominally easy to categorise, but in practice most would disagree. They're "social democrats" like every other bland center-left party in Europe, but in practice they're not much more than the liberal wing of Fine Gael. I still vote for them, mind, because the alternatives are...


DE NATURAL PARTY OF GUVERNMENT

Fianna Fáil: They believe in nothing but that is not an issue - they are For The Common People of Ireland. A nominal "republican" party, Fianna Fáil were the largest party in the Dáil for virtually the entire history of the state until they were almost wiped out in 2011. Largely discredited thanks to their established policy of bankrupting the country on a regular basis and everyone slowly realising that corruption on a grand scale was not necessarily something to be dismissed with a shrug, they are currently a rump opposition party with an ineffectual moron as a leader. Their "dramatic recovery" in the past year has consisted of basically performing the same as they did in the 2009 local elections, which at the time was considered a disaster of historic proportions.

Fianna Fáil can be best understood not in terms of "ideology' but as one of the traditional pillars of Irish society that has crumbled in recent years - the other being the Church. Flann O'Brien once suggested replacing the art on postal stamps with traditional scences from Irish life, such as a Fianna Fáil bigwig fixing a job for a relative.

CRIMINALS, TROTS AND OTHER WEIRDOS

Sinn Féin: Half-baked "socialism" and a committed "No to everything" platform has allowed Sinn Féin to go from strength to strength since 2011, with unpopular austerity policies taking their toll on the government and Fianna Fáil mired in being Fianna Fáil, but they are still weighed down a little by their previous policy of shooting their opponents and burying their bodies in unmarked graves. Most polling shows Sinn Féin as one of - or the - most popular party in the country, but it's virtually impossible that they end up leading a government, unless you're Gully and prone to Doom Paul-ing about such things. It is an unfortunate reality that we could end up with a FF/SF "nightmare  coalition", though.

Sinn Féin's ideology involves "republicanism", which means in practice little more than a tedious overuse of the Irish language for no reason and lots of lip service to concepts that generational FF voters in the middle of nowhere will find appealing. It also involves "socialism", which in this instance mostly revolves around saying things like "VOTE FOR REFORM - VOTE NO".

People Before Profit Alliance, Socialist, Workers and Unemployed Action Group: Trots and other hacks of various shades, almost all of whom are long overdue a metaphorical meeting with an ice axe. Part of a hilarious parliamentary technical group.

Thanks for the thorough explanations of the Irish parties Oakvale, interesting read and insight. Noticed that unlike a lot of European nations, there's no fascist party (think the likes of the BNP, Jobbik or the FN), or even an anti-EU right-wing party (think the likes of UKIP and the AfD).

How come neither of those styles of party have developed/flourished in Ireland? Although if you ask me, in the case of the former grouping (the fascists), it's good to see that movement hasn't really taken off in Ireland, especially given the rise of such parties in other European countries.
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2014, 01:18:12 PM »

Few people immigrate to Ireland, so little point in stirring up xenophobia? My first guess at least.

PR-STV is also advantageous to vague centrists who can harvest second votes, rather than fascists who are inevitably last pick on everybody's list.

<complete guess>
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2014, 01:19:44 PM »

Fine Gael is partially descended from a fascist party of course.
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2014, 01:23:24 PM »

The clientelistic nature of Irish politics also discourages new political movements that are not recognizably part of the establishment.
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politicus
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2014, 01:29:33 PM »
« Edited: September 05, 2014, 01:31:07 PM by politicus »

The clientelistic nature of Irish politics also discourages new political movements that are not recognizably part of the establishment.

That doesn't really apply to the left wing though. But assuming centre-right wing voters are more likely to be part of clientilistic networks (and they are in most countries) that's a good point regarding right wing populism. Still the "nation of emigrants" and lack of large scale non-European immigration factor is more important.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2014, 07:19:33 PM »

oakdale so what you're basically saying is that Faina Fail is more socially conservative and Fine Gale is more economically conservative right?
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