If one is 1/32nd Native American, should they be considered Native American?
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  If one is 1/32nd Native American, should they be considered Native American?
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Question: If one is 1/32nd Native American, should they be considered Native American?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
Only if they have tribal health insurance
 
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Total Voters: 55

Author Topic: If one is 1/32nd Native American, should they be considered Native American?  (Read 3049 times)
Snowstalker Mk. II
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« on: September 02, 2014, 10:15:51 PM »

.
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Harry
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 10:21:29 PM »

I would certainly not be so presumptuous as to tell the Potawatomi Tribe who they can and can't consider to be a "real" Indian.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2014, 10:33:45 PM »

I would certainly not be so presumptuous as to tell the Potawatomi Tribe who they can and can't consider to be a "real" Indian.

True, but if that's your only ethnic, personal, cultural or family tie to a tribe, give me a break.  If you're involved in tribal life, live on a reservation, know the language, know the culture, etc, then sure.  But, if you have no real personal experience with a tribe, 1/32 ancestry is completely meaningless.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 10:38:51 PM »

I would certainly not be so presumptuous as to tell the Potawatomi Tribe who they can and can't consider to be a "real" Indian.

True, but if that's your only ethnic, personal, cultural or family tie to a tribe, give me a break.  If you're involved in tribal life, live on a reservation, know the language, know the culture, etc, then sure.  But, if you have no real personal experience with a tribe, 1/32 ancestry is completely meaningless.

Doesn't most reservations are living in English, through?
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 10:54:50 PM »

Hey, it worked for Elizabeth Warren right?
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IceSpear
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 11:54:50 PM »

Hey, it worked for Elizabeth Warren right?

I was waiting for this comment.
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Miles
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 11:58:29 PM »

Meh, I'm 1/8 Cherokee and I don't consider myself Native Americans.

Perhaps UNC would have accepted me if I said I was...Tongue
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Bacon King
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2014, 12:16:45 AM »

Atlas forum, your bigotry is showing

legally, morally, and culturally, only the tribe itself has a legitimate say in its membership

but I suppose white man always knows best right?
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2014, 12:21:32 AM »

Atlas forum, your bigotry is showing

legally, morally, and culturally, only the tribe itself has a legitimate say in its membership

but I suppose white man always knows best right?

If a black man were 1/32 white, I'm pretty sure we'd have a consensus on what race he is.

The president is 1/2 white, and we already have the same consensus.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2014, 12:23:55 AM »

Atlas forum, your bigotry is showing

legally, morally, and culturally, only the tribe itself has a legitimate say in its membership

but I suppose white man always knows best right?

Being part of a tribe=/=being able to call yourself Native American.

And note that Bushie claimed this to justify his support for the Redskins name.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 12:31:21 AM »


...and from him.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 12:36:27 AM »

semantics caveat, I interpreted the phrase "be considered Native American" to mean "accepted as a member of a Native American tribe" not "accepted as a member of the Native American race" but I guess the distinction isn't clear. I should also consider that this is Bushoklahoma we're referencing, the guy that literally began self-identifying as African American after going on the mission trip to Kenya
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 01:01:07 AM »

No. By that definition, my mother would be Native American, as would her mother.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 01:19:04 AM »

Atlas forum, your bigotry is showing

legally, morally, and culturally, only the tribe itself has a legitimate say in its membership

but I suppose white man always knows best right?

Perhaps in USA. In Canada, federal government decides and decided than, to be Native, you needed to have a Native father. If you were female and you married a non-Native, you stopped being Native.

Courts recently threw out that nonsense.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2014, 07:36:22 AM »

Stupid thread is stupid.

Sh*t like this is kind of stupid and annoying but I do agree that it generally is a dumb idea for white middle-upper class protestants to tell people what they are.  If a white man wants to think he's black, who am I to stop him?  If a black man thinks he's Klingon, why should I care?  Like I said before it's all a meaningless stupid construct, so why not let people prove it by claiming full ancestry on only a fraction?
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2014, 07:47:27 AM »

it generally is a dumb idea for white middle-upper class protestants to tell people what they are.  If a white man wants to think he's black, who am I to stop him?  If a black man thinks he's Klingon, why should I care?  Like I said before it's all a meaningless stupid construct, so why not let people prove it by claiming full ancestry on only a fraction?
This.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2014, 08:40:25 AM »

I would say as a rule of thumb that one should be at least 1/8 of a particular ethnicity for you to identify with said ethnicity.
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bore
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2014, 08:45:06 AM »

it generally is a dumb idea for white middle-upper class protestants to tell people what they are.  If a white man wants to think he's black, who am I to stop him?  If a black man thinks he's Klingon, why should I care?  Like I said before it's all a meaningless stupid construct, so why not let people prove it by claiming full ancestry on only a fraction?
This.

I'm not surprised that oldies doesn't mind people claiming they're white when they're black.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2014, 08:45:22 AM »


Yes, I can imagine the gears in his brain slowly turning as he said to himself: "I got a good one!"
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20RP12
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2014, 08:54:27 AM »

No (sane)
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angus
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2014, 09:53:46 AM »

haha.  I know what inspired this.  It's fun to poke fun at the expense of our favorite poster, and it's good that he has a self-effacing sense of humor and can take it, but seriously we are far too hung up on ethnicity.  Who is what and who isn't.  Tiger Woods catching grief from the "black community" for not claiming to be black.  Obama catching grief from the brothers for being too white, and from the robber barons who run the country for being too black.  Now Bushie catches grief for not being Native enough to call himself native.  There's no point in arguing about this. 

I was sitting in a bar with an Italian woman once, in Boston, about 20 years ago, when some local guys I knew came in and started in with the "You're Eye Talyan?  I'm Eye Talyan too.  My mutha's Eye Talyan.  My fatha's Eye Talyan.  We're all Eye Talyan."  She then asked them something in Italian, and of course they just looked confused. 

"So do you don't speak Italian?" 

"Well, no.  I mean, a few words, like dago and getouttahere and fuggadaboutit but not really.  I'm 100 pacent Eye Talyan, though.  All my family is." 

"What is your favorite part of Italy?"

"Well, let's see, thez Rome.  And, um, thez...  Let's see.  Where's that guy from that paints those pictures?  You know, like the roofs of the chapels and stuff.  Um, Ithaca, right?  Yeah, Ithaca.  I like Ithaca too."

"I think Ithaca is in Greece."

"Oh.  Yeah, Rome's in Italy, right?"

"Yes, Rome is in Italy.  Has been for a very long time.  Have you been there?"

"Eh, well, I neva been to Italy.  but I'm Eye Talyan.  All my family's 100 pacent Eye Talyan."

...   (Italian girl doesn't quite know what to say at this point so I change the subject...  We later discuss this and I tell her that it is quite common for Americans to claim to be American and something else as well, and not to make distinctions between foreigners and themselves, when those foreigners are citizens of a land from which at least some of their ancestors hail.)

Anyway, we obsess over this stuff too much.  Maybe that's the collateral damage naturally occurring in a nation of immigrants.  The Cherokee and the Apache and the Potawatomee are descended from immigrants too.  Long time ago their ancestors came from the steppes of central Asia chasing game, or grain stock, or escaping the harsh winters. 

Bushie gets medical insurance in a legit way.  There's no problem there.  We talk all the time about how it's a "moral imperative" that we insure everyone, and there's no shortage of supporters here for the asinine, short-sighted PPACA.  People ignore the fact that it redistributes wealth from the many to a few and exacerbates the problem of overpriced goods and services, precisely because it means fewer uninsured and "underinsured."  You'd think that a forum that so worships the idea universal medical insurance, with a demonstrated willingness to support bad policy if that means getting to that goal, would applaud someone who manages to obtain medical insurance legitimately.  The tribal council should be the ones to decide what fraction of amerindian ancestry constitutes the insurance eligibility.  Not me.  Not this forum.  Not President Obama.

I have known several people who very proudly claim amerindian ancestry, even though they are several generations removed.  I don't think they're doing anything unethical or silly.  We don't make fun of people who claim to be descended of Thomas Jefferson or of the Spanish Royalty or of some famous general, even though only 1/32 of their ancestors was this famous person.  We don't start polls about them.  Such a poll really isn't justified here either, in my humble opinion.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2014, 11:36:44 AM »

Blood quantum rules are absurd, but so is Bushie's belief that he can say "as a Native American" and have that carry any weight at all.
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Joe Biden 2020
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2014, 11:53:37 AM »

Why am I being mocked and criticized and laughed at and brutally at that for my heritage?  You all do not get to decide whether I can call myself Native American.  That is not your call to make.  You guys are scum for debating this and mocking me because of it.  I ask that this thread be locked immediately.
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Joe Biden 2020
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2014, 12:02:33 PM »

You - and only you - are responsible for the one-man minstrel show that inspired this admittedly pathetic debate. (Sure, it's just another chapter in the series of lies, scams, and shakedowns that is your life, but how many posters actually want to see you denied health care?) Stop whining like a child.

Still, the thread should be locked, or at the very least merged into the existing Update thread.  Posters should heed angus's post.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2014, 12:03:02 PM »

I feel like the response to this here may have been very, very different had it been in reference to gender or perhaps involving a different race (both of which I believe are cited as being social constructs by some on this forum, if I remember correctly based on past threads)  and had it been someone besides BushOK. I suppose that's irrelevant though.

That being said...

Why am I being mocked and criticized and laughed at and brutally at that for my heritage?  You all do not get to decide whether I can call myself Native American.  That is not your call to make.  You guys are scum for debating this and mocking me because of it.  I ask that this thread be locked immediately.

lol.
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