Is Simfan OK?
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  Is Simfan OK?
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Poll
Question: Simfan AKA Varavour
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
I am Simfan
 
#4
We are all Simfan
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 50

Author Topic: Is Simfan OK?  (Read 2170 times)
Paul Kemp
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« on: September 07, 2014, 06:46:38 PM »

UPDATE: Dean of the undergraduate college runs into Sulkowicz, awkwardness ensues.

Some more updates:

They've made listicles about it.

A website has been set up where people can sign up to help Sulkowicz carry around the mattress.

Here's a video of her explaining her project to the campus newspaper.

Interestingly enough, here is a video of none other than the alleged rapist, Jean-Paul Nungesser, explaining his project (a short film) to the campus newspaper, last year- seven months after the incident.


I don't know. I just don't- I really don't know what can be done about this. I suppose you (and Joe) are interested in my opinion about this. Then again I doubt you are.

But having seen her carry that mattress myself, as well as having the issue quite literally shoved in my face- campus is being swarmed with reporters-  it's impossible to not think about it. But you actually don't see people here talking about it, or at least I haven't.

I personally haven't talked about it with anyone sans one or two close friends who can be relied to generally be of the same mind as me. I still think there are only two real firm "positions" one can have about this, as I said before, both of which are rather terrible, so I imagine talking about this- despite the fact it has completely enveloped our university and attracted international attention- would be close to sheer horror. Which is why I wanted to bring it up here rather than just thinking about it.

But I'm not sure what to think. Bacon King (and others), raised up the issue of the shortcomings of the campus disciplinary system and sexual assault policy, which are obviously pertinent. For most of this year the university It certainly needs to be changed- which it actually has recently, and quite expansively.

The new "Gender-Based Misconduct Policy" (I am not entirely sure why it is called that), for example, states that "a person also cannot give consent under [the Gender-Based Misconduct Policy] if he or she is incapacitated by drinking, drugs, being asleep, or for any other reason," which is a rather uncompromising approach to consent (Is the drunken hook-up now non-consensual? This would seem to necessitate a rather radical configuration in social norms that I gather many of the people who call for the end of "rape culture" would not look favourably upon.).

But more relevant to the issues that Bacon King brought up is that the new policy permits advisors or attorneys to "accompany students to any meetings or hearings related to investigations."

Also fun fact: I started this post at 07:06 and finished...whenever I end up posting this. It's 11:45 right now. Wait-what the hell?! Have I been sitting here for this long?!

I'll skip over the digression about how campus activists responded to the new policy by complaining that they weren't involved in writing it and get back to Sulkowicz.

I mean, I sympathize with her. I have no reason to believe she's being dishonest about what happened to her, and so it's clear she's been through a great deal of mental anguish and distress. Indeed, my first reaction to hearing this was a rather knee-jerk distaste for her "performance art", which I generally rather dislike. I still don't consider it "art", but after hearing her explain her reasoning for carrying the mattress, I saw how it rather poignantly served as a physical embodiment of the trauma and pain she must carry with her at all times. I actually feel the mass of attention the media has given to this attests to just how strikingly it captures that feeling.

But I absolutely can't get behind what she's trying to accomplish with this- have her alleged rapist expelled. Flawed as it might have been, the disciplinary panel did not find Nungesser responsible for what he was accused of, and nor has any court done so. Emotive as her actions might be, it doesn't make him any more legally culpable than he is now. As much as I or anyone else might believe what she said happened to her did happen and that her rapist should be expelled and punished, it doesn't give us any justifiable reason to do so. In that way this whole thing comes across as an attempt to find him guilty in a court of public opinion so that he may be run off campus, the other courts having failed her. It is an act of a desperate person with no-one else to whom to turn.

Again, I don't think she's wrong to feel that way. But it almost doesn't seem that way. This is a senior art thesis, a calculated and planned project. An organised campaign. It's not something someone overwhelmed by their demons would be able to carry out. Which makes me wonder about her reasoning as to why she did not report her rape sooner. I have never been a victim of sexual assault and thus lack the ability to truly empathise with her, but she waited eight months to file a report with the disciplinary office. And then, afterwards, it was close to two whole years until she went to the police. Shame, anger, embarrassment, frustration- I can imagine it- but I'm thrown off by her ability to now stand front and center in the public square with this when she had been so hobbled by it for so long.

I don't intend to criticise her- perhaps she did suddenly feel the need to be open about what happened to her, but that night is now over two years in the past. What can be done? What if evidence, even if there was a trial, would anyone be able to produce beyond the testimonies of the two and possibly the almost certainly unreliable recollection of people in neighboring rooms? What real evidence is there beyond Sulkowicz's word? I take her for it- but that's not how laws work. I guess my frustration in the prior paragraph comes from the utter futility of further investigation or trial- there simply is no evidence at this point; had she come forth sooner, it would be different. There would be  evidence, and justice could be served.

But for me the idea of expelling a student found guilty of no crime or deemed responsible for any wrongdoing strikes me as fundamentally unjust, and I'll admit I honestly find the idea more revolting than the idea of a rapist going unpunished. I mean, is this what people- other than Sulkowicz, who unlike the rest of us presumably knows the absolute truth of the matter- want to happen? For someone to be expelled (and presumably imprisoned) without a shred of evidence? It is one thing to reject disciplinary boards and courts of law as biased and incompetent, but it is another to completely reject the idea of the rule of law and the right to a fair trial. I really don't know- is this something people believe? Is it something they want?

That is perhaps what is so distressing about this whole affair: "justice" would be unjust, but "injustice" would be just.

What do you think should be done? Because I simply don't know.
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King
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 06:55:05 PM »

Is Simfan the accused rapist?
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 06:59:29 PM »

I hope we all can appreciate his list of things he don't like:

Also here are some key phrases of other bad things:

Performance art
Campus activism
Evidence
Phasing of consent
Mechanics of anal sex
Witch hunt
Media involvement
University disciplinary panel

So I am... interested in your... opinions on this... matter.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 07:05:00 PM »

This is how I... imagine Simfan... speaks when he fills his... posts with so many... ellipses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4FiulQE-AY
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dead0man
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 08:24:52 PM »

yes
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 08:27:03 PM »

Well his compulsive desire to pretend to be other people is sort of worrying.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2014, 09:10:10 PM »

Well his compulsive desire to pretend to be other people is sort of worrying.

RIP NELSON HANFORD
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Simfan34
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2014, 10:55:31 PM »

What is the purpose of this thread? What- what made that post worth such a treatment? I simply tried to articulate my feelings on the issue. Which are clearly very confused, and I won't pretend they're not.
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tik 🪀✨
ComradeCarter
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 11:24:51 PM »

He's being honest about his conflicting feelings and spelling them out. That's a hell of a lot more thoughtful than most of the crap posted around here.

Although at times it is difficult to interpret his ..typographical inflections..
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Badger
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 11:34:44 PM »

Like most people thus far, I voted no.
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free my dawg
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 11:58:23 PM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2014, 12:06:01 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?

How Can Simfan Be Real if Our Posts Aren't Real
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2014, 08:25:43 AM »

not really, but so long as he's not an imminent danger to others, it's no bother.  fringy attitudes make the world go round.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2014, 08:43:13 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?

How Can Simfan Be Real if Our Posts Aren't Real

Trust me, our posts are real.  Here, I'll give a link to some of them:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=198355.0

All of those posts are real.

It's Simfan who may or may not be real.  Have you ever seen yourself and Simfan in the same room together?  You could be the same person.
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windjammer
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2014, 08:46:37 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
Impossible Sawx,
"I think, therefore I am."
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2014, 08:50:27 AM »

On second thought, the username "Simfan" might be too obvious a hint that we're all just a computer simulation created by "Simfan".
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2014, 08:52:24 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
Impossible Sawx,
"I think, therefore I am."

Are you sure your thoughts, and therefore your existence, are real? Wink
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free my dawg
SawxDem
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2014, 08:57:33 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
Impossible Sawx,
"I think, therefore I am."

But how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2014, 09:05:57 AM »

He's still an uppity kid, but weirder than normal.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2014, 09:33:34 AM »

What is the purpose of this thread? What- what made that post worth such a treatment? I simply tried to articulate my feelings on the issue. Which are clearly very confused, and I won't pretend they're not.

The feelings and the topic itself are irrelevant. It's mostly things like this:

Also fun fact: I started this post at 07:06 and finished...whenever I end up posting this. It's 11:45 right now. Wait-what the hell?! Have I been sitting here for this long?!

...and this:

Although at times it is difficult to interpret his ..typographical inflections..

Your style is... original... to say the least...
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2014, 10:38:47 AM »

Of course not.  But I'm still glad he's around.
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windjammer
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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2014, 10:45:07 AM »

What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
Impossible Sawx,
"I think, therefore I am."

Are you sure your thoughts, and therefore your existence, are real? Wink
I don't know if what I think is true, I don't know if all of you are real, maybe I'm in a psychiatric hospital and this forum doesn't really exist. But what I know is that I think, wrongly or not, I think. So I exist Tongue.

Of course, you can't be sure I exist because you could think I'm a produce of your imagination! Tongue

--------------------------
What if this entire world doesn't exist, and we're all just figments of Simfan's imagination?
Impossible Sawx,
"I think, therefore I am."

But how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

We don't know if mirrors are really real sawx!
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2014, 10:52:21 AM »

Is windjammer OK?
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windjammer
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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2014, 10:55:34 AM »

Oh yes, I'm fine, thank you!  Tongue
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2014, 10:58:10 AM »


Great news! FF.
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