Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice

[Likely Voter]

So everyone seems to agree that after seeing video of Ray Rice (now fired from the Ravens) knock out his girlfriend with one punch, he is a bad guy. Well everyone but potential 2016 GOP darling Ben Carson, who said...

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That's right, she really needs to share the blame. I mean what a total glass jaw right?
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ben-carson-defends-ray-rice-dont-start-demonizing-this-guy/

This kind of total media ineptitude just shows that he may be even more entertaining (and even more apt to crash and burn) than Herman Cain.

[Dixie Reborn]

Carson is pretty much a joke; everyone outside the Tea Party knows it.

[GOON]

The only reason Conservatives like this guy is because he gave a speech at a function Obama attended, and proceeded to punk Obama during said speech.  Had he not done that, he'd just be another guy.

I mean, was it cool to see?  Yeah.  Does one speech make one worthy of the Oval Office, especially one who has never held elected office before?  Hell no.

[Maxwell]

If he shut the hell up at that dinner, he would've been still considered a fascinating and respected figure in the medical field. Instead, he's just another talking head.

[NHI]

Carson is pretty much a joke; everyone outside the Tea Party knows it.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

From what I see he's kinda right. There's nothing really to be gained from beating on (no pun intended) Rice. He's saying that they've got problems and need help.

[New_Conservative]

Carson is pretty much a joke; everyone outside the Tea Party knows it.

[NHLiberal]

From what I see he's kinda right. There's nothing really to be gained from beating on (no pun intended) Rice. He's saying that they've got problems and need help.

Here's the part that's problematic.

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He's casting part of the blame upon the victim

[Brewer]

The way I read that was Carson making some sick joke about how Rice's wife is mentally ill because she subsequently married him, though I certainly hope that's not how it was intended.

[dmmidmi]

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This.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Seriously? We're detracting from the fact that he knocked her out cold just because she has Stockholm Syndrome?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm not a Carson fan, but he's not defending Ray Rice.  He's saying Rice and his wife both need help.  I wouldn't disagree with that.  I would've phrased it a bit differently, but what he said wasn't wrong or inappropriate, and I don't think he's victim blaming.  A large majority of women in abusive relationships return to their abusers.  Acknowledging that isn't victim blaming.  It'd be foolish for those who wish to help victims not to acknowledge that.  But acknowledging it doesn't equate to victim blaming, unless you think that virtually every domestic abuse shelter and organization out there are engaging in victim blaming.

[Likely Voter]

There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

[DrScholl]

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

[DS0816]

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

With this example, it's so stunning as to why Republicans haven't nationally carried the female vote in presidential elections since after the 1980s.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

[Likely Voter]

Well I was joking, because there is actually a FB thing
https://www.facebook.com/GodCallingDrCarsonToRunForPresidentIn2016

...but if you want Truthiness, then....

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One can only conclude that either the Lord has touched Dr. Carson's collar, or he is getting ready for him to do so.


But in general I think you are missing the point of this thread. With this comment and others he has made like comparing Obamacare to slavery, comparing homosexuality to bestiality, etc. This guy is not capable of surviving the media scrutiny of a presidential campaign.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Shameless pandering to the Republican base.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well I was joking, because there is actually a FB thing
https://www.facebook.com/GodCallingDrCarsonToRunForPresidentIn2016

...but if you want Truthiness, then....

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One can only conclude that either the Lord has touched Dr. Carson's collar, or he is getting ready for him to do so.


But in general I think you are missing the point of this thread. With this comment and others he has made like comparing Obamacare to slavery, comparing homosexuality to bestiality, etc. This guy is not capable of surviving the media scrutiny of a presidential campaign.

I agree with your last two sentences, but that's why I ultimately think he'll decide against running.  I don't see him jumping into the race.

That being said, his statement here isn't something I think he should be criticized over.  A lot of the other stuff he's said--absolutely, but not this.  And it's sad that you've got political hacks out there characterizing what he said as "defending" Rice, when there's no indication that he's defending him or what he did.  Advocating against demonizing him isn't defending him; it's urging for a solution to the problem instead of just throwing words out into the media.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I guess the two questions I'd like to see answered by those who think Carson is in the wrong here are:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?
2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

[DrScholl]

There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him.  

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing is somehow unfair. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.

Being called out and being demonized are two different things, and no, it's not all in the same line of logic (although I'm not sure you finished your sentence... I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say).  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior wasn't acceptable.  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior shouldn't be spoken about negatively.  You're talking about things that aren't what Carson said.

Conveniently you glossed over my two questions in my last post, so I'll ask them again:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?
2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

[badgate]

I've seen two Carson '16 bumper stickers this week.

[dmmidmi]

I guess the two questions I'd like to see answered by those who think Carson is in the wrong here are:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?

Because this:



is well outside of what is generally considered acceptable behavior. If one doesn't think he needs to be publicly shamed, they need to watch that video again. And again.

2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

This requires the assumption that outrage towards Ray Rice is intended to accomplish anything--and is anything but a perfectly normal reaction to seeing someone do something so egregious towards someone who is relatively defenseless--and could be anybody's mother, sister, daughter, friend, or cousin. I seriously doubt that there is an orchestrated effort to accomplish a goal or meet an objective by lashing out at Ray Rice.

Thus, this isn't the right question to be asking.

[DrScholl]

There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.

Being called out and being demonized are two different things, and no, it's not all in the same line of logic (although I'm not sure you finished your sentence... I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say).  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior wasn't acceptable.  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior shouldn't be spoken about negatively.  You're talking about things that aren't what Carson said.

Conveniently you glossed over my two questions in my last post, so I'll ask them again:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?
2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

Carson's notion that the wife needs help too implies that she is somehow to blame, which is a sneaky defense for Rice. Never once did I claim that Carson said the behavior was acceptable, I was stating that he was borderline defending Rice in a convoluted way.

I don't know about you, but that video speaks for itself. I don't think demonizing is even the right word for the response. You are entitled to your opinion, so I will not argue with you. End of debate.