"House Jewish caucus shrinks, causing worries over influence"

[© tweed]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/house-jewish-caucus-shrinks-causing-worries-over-influence/

also written about is how Netanyahu's "obviously Republican view of the world" has led to 'diversified' American-Jewish opinion (ie not willing to blindly follow directives coming from the State of Israel)

the whole tone of the article is rather stunning.  if this was any other ethnic group we'd be talking about systematic treason.

[bedstuy]

Jewish people worrying, that's a new one. 

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.  But, you like saying provocative things about Jewish people to be edgy.  That's one of your things, right?

This Jew, for one, is not worried about our the US government slipping from our conniving, Jewy grasp.  And the rising tide of anti-Semitism around the world is bad, but it's nothing the Jewish people haven't dealt with before.  If we can survive Antiochus, Hitler and Alexander III, we can survive the 21st century left and a few ragtag terrorists and paramilitary groups. 

[Indy Texas]

Do other countries view their American diaspora counterparts in this way?

The closest any American ethnic group has come to Jewish Americans when putting one's ethnic homeland before one's national homeland is probably the Irish American community's tacit support of terrorism during The Troubles.

[© tweed]

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.

read this thing and replace Jews/Israel with say, Russians.  imagine if there were a few dozen Russian-American congressman who formed an unofficial "caucus" across party lines and regularly flew back to Russia to laud the way their gov't was "protecting the Russian people" through its actions in Ukraine.  and imagine these Congressmen took campaign money from the American-Russian Public Affairs Committee and frequented its K Street offices.


--

as for the rest, I'll note that I, at least in theory could face the same dangers you do from the "rise of global antsemitism".  I have Jewish ancestry and would have been considered a Jew by the Nazi legal definition.  my borderline hatred for the State of Israel and the role it plays on the world scene is not unrelated to my pseudo-Jewish background.

[bedstuy]

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.

read this thing and replace Jews/Israel with say, Russians.  imagine if there were a few dozen Russian-American congressman who formed an unofficial "caucus" across party lines and regularly flew back to Russia to laud the way their gov't was "protecting the Russian people" through its actions in Ukraine.  and imagine these Congressmen took campaign money from the American-Russian Public Affairs Committee and frequented its K Street offices.


--

as for the rest, I'll note that I, at least in theory could face the same dangers you do from the "rise of global antsemitism".  I have Jewish ancestry and would have been considered a Jew by the Nazi legal definition.  my borderline hatred for the State of Israel and the role it plays on the world scene is not unrelated to my pseudo-Jewish background.

I think most Jewish people think that Israel's interests and the USA's interests basically overlap and believe that it's a moral imperative to stand up for Israel, not a religious or ethnic imperative.  It's interesting personally how this all shakes out.  I actually went to undergrad at a super liberal hippy school and there was a real anti-Israel undercurrent.  But, when I went to an ivy league grad school you could tell that the ruling class of America, as opposed to the humanities professors and intellectual stoners, truly support Israel in a strong way.  It's an interesting dynamic and I'm curious to see how this whole debate shakes out as the US gets more polarized and Israel gets more conservative and insane.

And, don't think being self-hating makes you any less Jewish, it makes you more Jewish.  That's how we get you. 

[All Along The Watchtower]

Many American Jews aren't directly tied to Israel, of course-and even besides that, I can't think that Netanhyanu and Likud's actions sit well with a lot of the more secular and left-leaning Jews in the US.

Unfortunately, the more neo-conservative types have a lot of influence in American foreign policy that extends beyond their dominant role in the second Bush Administration (although as has been noted, the most knee-jerk pro-Israel group in the United States is the Christian Right-but their influence has peaked).

[Indy Texas]

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.

read this thing and replace Jews/Israel with say, Russians.  imagine if there were a few dozen Russian-American congressman who formed an unofficial "caucus" across party lines and regularly flew back to Russia to laud the way their gov't was "protecting the Russian people" through its actions in Ukraine.  and imagine these Congressmen took campaign money from the American-Russian Public Affairs Committee and frequented its K Street offices.


--

as for the rest, I'll note that I, at least in theory could face the same dangers you do from the "rise of global antsemitism".  I have Jewish ancestry and would have been considered a Jew by the Nazi legal definition.  my borderline hatred for the State of Israel and the role it plays on the world scene is not unrelated to my pseudo-Jewish background.

I think most Jewish people think that Israel's interests and the USA's interests basically overlap and believe that it's a moral imperative to stand up for Israel, not a religious or ethnic imperative.  It's interesting personally how this all shakes out.  I actually went to undergrad at a super liberal hippy school and there was a real anti-Israel undercurrent.  But, when I went to an ivy league grad school you could tell that the ruling class of America, as opposed to the humanities professors and intellectual stoners, truly support Israel in a strong way.  It's an interesting dynamic and I'm curious to see how this whole debate shakes out as the US gets more polarized and Israel gets more conservative and insane.

And, don't think being self-hating makes you any less Jewish, it makes you more Jewish.  That's how we get you. 

You could say that about virtually any Western country that a lot of Americans have ancestral ties to - Great Britain, Germany, France, Japan, the Netherlands - but we never hear about, say, the British-American Political Action Committee.

[MalaspinaGold]

*cough* the Miami Cubans say hello.
True it isn't a perfect parallel since they don't actually run the government of Cuba, but still the various special interests, putting themselves above their nation yada yada yada.

Seriously though, the article was written from an American perspective about two things: how declining numbers of Jews in congress leads to less influence on key Jewish issues (the article cites Israel, church/state, and social safety net, among others), and the tack left by many Jewish congresspeople because of currents in the democratic party. How either of these are treason are beyond me.

And the reason there is no "Russian caucus" is because the US and Russia are not exactly on best terms right now. If the US and Israel ever end up as geopolitical foes, then it would stop happening.

[MalaspinaGold]

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.

read this thing and replace Jews/Israel with say, Russians.  imagine if there were a few dozen Russian-American congressman who formed an unofficial "caucus" across party lines and regularly flew back to Russia to laud the way their gov't was "protecting the Russian people" through its actions in Ukraine.  and imagine these Congressmen took campaign money from the American-Russian Public Affairs Committee and frequented its K Street offices.


--

as for the rest, I'll note that I, at least in theory could face the same dangers you do from the "rise of global antsemitism".  I have Jewish ancestry and would have been considered a Jew by the Nazi legal definition.  my borderline hatred for the State of Israel and the role it plays on the world scene is not unrelated to my pseudo-Jewish background.

I think most Jewish people think that Israel's interests and the USA's interests basically overlap and believe that it's a moral imperative to stand up for Israel, not a religious or ethnic imperative.  It's interesting personally how this all shakes out.  I actually went to undergrad at a super liberal hippy school and there was a real anti-Israel undercurrent.  But, when I went to an ivy league grad school you could tell that the ruling class of America, as opposed to the humanities professors and intellectual stoners, truly support Israel in a strong way.  It's an interesting dynamic and I'm curious to see how this whole debate shakes out as the US gets more polarized and Israel gets more conservative and insane.

And, don't think being self-hating makes you any less Jewish, it makes you more Jewish.  That's how we get you. 

You could say that about virtually any Western country that a lot of Americans have ancestral ties to - Great Britain, Germany, France, Japan, the Netherlands - but we never hear about, say, the British-American Political Action Committee.

This is of course because the British-American community is a lot less cohesive than the Jewish-American community- let alone a large number of British people in congress. There was a time of course when a British-America Political Action Committee was very powerful- think Alexander Hamilton.

[bedstuy]

Seriously, the treason bit is a bit much.

read this thing and replace Jews/Israel with say, Russians.  imagine if there were a few dozen Russian-American congressman who formed an unofficial "caucus" across party lines and regularly flew back to Russia to laud the way their gov't was "protecting the Russian people" through its actions in Ukraine.  and imagine these Congressmen took campaign money from the American-Russian Public Affairs Committee and frequented its K Street offices.


--

as for the rest, I'll note that I, at least in theory could face the same dangers you do from the "rise of global antsemitism".  I have Jewish ancestry and would have been considered a Jew by the Nazi legal definition.  my borderline hatred for the State of Israel and the role it plays on the world scene is not unrelated to my pseudo-Jewish background.

I think most Jewish people think that Israel's interests and the USA's interests basically overlap and believe that it's a moral imperative to stand up for Israel, not a religious or ethnic imperative.  It's interesting personally how this all shakes out.  I actually went to undergrad at a super liberal hippy school and there was a real anti-Israel undercurrent.  But, when I went to an ivy league grad school you could tell that the ruling class of America, as opposed to the humanities professors and intellectual stoners, truly support Israel in a strong way.  It's an interesting dynamic and I'm curious to see how this whole debate shakes out as the US gets more polarized and Israel gets more conservative and insane.

And, don't think being self-hating makes you any less Jewish, it makes you more Jewish.  That's how we get you. 

You could say that about virtually any Western country that a lot of Americans have ancestral ties to - Great Britain, Germany, France, Japan, the Netherlands - but we never hear about, say, the British-American Political Action Committee.

1.  Wales isn't firing rockets at the Victoria and Albert Museum.  Israel has been under attacked for its entire history.  Jewish Americans could care less about Israel's free trade deal with Canada or the domestic political issues of Israel.  It's all about Israel's self-defense/evil aggression towards the Palestinians depending on your point of view.  That's why people care

2.  Israel is central to the Jewish religion.  Half the holidays are about defending Israel or escaping from a foreign country to Israel.  Germans Americans don't celebrate German high holy days or go to a German church, right?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Someday, we may get a Congress that only has 95% of its members be blindly pro-Israel.

[ingemann]

Do other countries view their American diaspora counterparts in this way?

The closest any American ethnic group has come to Jewish Americans when putting one's ethnic homeland before one's national homeland is probably the Irish American community's tacit support of terrorism during The Troubles.

There are really only the Armenians, of course as they have less power, it's less obvious.

[Cory]

The Israel lobby has done more to fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories then anything else I can think of in the past 30 years. I hate to sound like this but the truth of the matter is that the "Jewish lobby" in America has a disproportionate amount of influence over American politics.

These people effectively act as an Israeli "fifth column" within America. They care more about Israel then America. It's gotten to the point where it can't be denied anymore. These people are foreign spies who desire to subvert American foreign policy for their own ends.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Someday, we may get a Congress that only has 95% of its members be blindly pro-Israel.

BTW, latest count was 98% in the House (and probably 100% in the Senate). These are the 8 who voted against another $225 million for Iron Dome to allow Israel to continue their attacks on Gaza.

Amash
Ellison
Jones
Lofgren
Massie
Moran
O'Rourke
Sanford

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll480.xml

[MalaspinaGold]

FWIW, the Iron Dome IS actually a defensive weapon, meaning its sole purpose is to shoot rockets over Israeli airspace. It doesn't kill any civilians, and not having it probably wouldn't deter Israeli saber-rattling (the technology is relatively recent).

That said, votes on offensive arms (tanks, etc.), I think tend to be more controversial and garner stronger opposition.

[IceSpear]

Someday, we may get a Congress that only has 95% of its members be blindly pro-Israel.

BTW, latest count was 98% in the House (and probably 100% in the Senate). These are the 8 who voted against another $225 million for Iron Dome to allow Israel to continue their attacks on Gaza.

Amash
Ellison
Jones
Lofgren
Massie
Moran
O'Rourke
Sanford

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll480.xml

Perhaps you should start a Draft Sanford movement?

[traininthedistance]

Do other countries view their American diaspora counterparts in this way?

The closest any American ethnic group has come to Jewish Americans when putting one's ethnic homeland before one's national homeland is probably the Irish American community's tacit support of terrorism during The Troubles.

The Israel lobby has done more to fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories then anything else I can think of in the past 30 years. I hate to sound like this but the truth of the matter is that the "Jewish lobby" in America has a disproportionate amount of influence over American politics.

These people effectively act as an Israeli "fifth column" within America. They care more about Israel then America. It's gotten to the point where it can't be denied anymore. These people are foreign spies who desire to subvert American foreign policy for their own ends.

People also thought that those dirty subhuman Papists were a fifth column taking their orders from Rome.  People thought that German immigrant communities (who kept their mother tongue way, way longer than any other ethnic group BTW) were dirty traitorous Krauts who needed to have their real sympathies replaced with bales of Liberty Cabbage.  People thought that the Freemasons and the Chinese and the Chicanos and everyone else were subversive invaders whose would gladly rip the flag to shreds for their own homeland and own ethnic group.

Given the history of this sort of rhetoric, one best be verrrrrrrrry careful making such accusations.  Especially when trying to set up one group as uniquely wedded to their homeland- an accusation that is laughably, easily disproved with Masalpina's Cuban example above.  And I don't really see that sort of care coming from you folks.

(Edited because it quoted a moderated post. - TF)

[bedstuy]

The Israel lobby has done more to fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories then anything else I can think of in the past 30 years. I hate to sound like this but the truth of the matter is that the "Jewish lobby" in America has a disproportionate amount of influence over American politics.

These people effectively act as an Israeli "fifth column" within America. They care more about Israel then America. It's gotten to the point where it can't be denied anymore. These people are foreign spies who desire to subvert American foreign policy for their own ends.

Israel shouldn't exist + Go back to your Jew country, Jewboy =

[© tweed]

The Israel lobby has done more to fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories then anything else I can think of in the past 30 years. I hate to sound like this but the truth of the matter is that the "Jewish lobby" in America has a disproportionate amount of influence over American politics.

These people effectively act as an Israeli "fifth column" within America. They care more about Israel then America. It's gotten to the point where it can't be denied anymore. These people are foreign spies who desire to subvert American foreign policy for their own ends.

Israel shouldn't exist + Go back to your Jew country, Jewboy =

one thing about Meir Kahane that I respect is that he both acknowledged and opposed the Israeli co-opting of the US state apparatus.  "we'll eat tomatoes, we can defend ourselves".  fine, get out of Brooklyn and go do that.  as Kahane did.

[MalaspinaGold]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

[bedstuy]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

If you ask an anti-Semite, just being Jewish is bad enough, right?

[© tweed]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

hard to say.  there's no evidence either way, so he's presumed innocent.

[bedstuy]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

hard to say.  there's no evidence either way, so he's presumed innocent.

You did tell me to move to Israel.  Remember?

[MalaspinaGold]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

hard to say.  there's no evidence either way, so he's presumed innocent.

Well bedstuy, you are lucky, you will have the opportunity to lay out your case as to why you should stay in America and not be deported.

[© tweed]

when was the last time bedstuy did anything related to "co-opting the US state apparatus", other than being Jewish?

hard to say.  there's no evidence either way, so he's presumed innocent.

You did tell me to move to Israel.  Remember?

Meir Kahane told you to move to Israel.