Support for Carers Bill 2014 (Debating)
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  Support for Carers Bill 2014 (Debating)
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Author Topic: Support for Carers Bill 2014 (Debating)  (Read 984 times)
TNF
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« on: September 11, 2014, 11:12:28 AM »

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Sponsor: Senator Polnut



Senator, you have 24 hours to make your case here.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 04:01:44 PM »

First of all, this would be incredibly easy to defraud. For example, when I was a kid, my grandmother lived in our house, not because she was totally unable to take care of herself, but because my grandfather was deceased and it would be a bad idea for her to live alone. Under this program, my mother (a housewife) could simply claim to be her "carer" and collect government benefits.

Isn't the point of Social Security to provide people with income with which to pay for retirement expenses such as hiring personal carers or moving into a retirement home? This seems redundant in that regard.

Finally, I don't think we should create any new benefit programs until the basic income discussion is fully settled. Doing so will only make it more difficult to try and figure out how to incorporate/fold in previous programs into the basic income scheme.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 08:12:21 PM »

First of all, this would be incredibly easy to defraud. For example, when I was a kid, my grandmother lived in our house, not because she was totally unable to take care of herself, but because my grandfather was deceased and it would be a bad idea for her to live alone. Under this program, my mother (a housewife) could simply claim to be her "carer" and collect government benefits.

Isn't the point of Social Security to provide people with income with which to pay for retirement expenses such as hiring personal carers or moving into a retirement home? This seems redundant in that regard.

Finally, I don't think we should create any new benefit programs until the basic income discussion is fully settled. Doing so will only make it more difficult to try and figure out how to incorporate/fold in previous programs into the basic income scheme.

I'd urge you to look at the Atlasian Social Security Act... it might help with context.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 12:27:07 PM »

I definitely support this in principle, especially when you consider the problems that elderly people often face, such as slow, steady decline in mental and/or physical capability. Time and resources can definitely be strained for carers. I'm not entirely sure what all programs we have for the elderly, but that is what I immediately thought of as a way in which this could help.

I definitely think some standard that distinguishes between someone living with you and someone you are actually taking care of would be wise, but yeah, I support this one.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 05:49:18 PM »

Did we ever pass the previous Support for Carers Bill or was that failed last year?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 08:52:19 PM »

Did we ever pass the previous Support for Carers Bill or was that failed last year?

It got tabled

The other point Mr President, is that it's not just about the elderly but the disabled of any age.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 04:55:49 AM »

I can not think of any reason why I would not support this. Giving aid to people who care for others, often giving up their jobs in the process, is very sensible. I guess the distinguition Deus' critisised is alrady made, as you are only applicable if the person you care for has mental or physical illness. I wholeheartedly support this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 04:15:58 PM »

Did we ever pass the previous Support for Carers Bill or was that failed last year?

It got tabled.

Like I said, you should have just ran again and strung it together for a few weeks until your availability improved. Wink Compared to what actually occurred, that would been far superior to four months of comic sans. Tongue

That said, if I recall correctly, we did keep the bill alive for a rather long time after you left. Lets hope the GM problem doesn't hinder it again, for that had a very negative impact on it last year.
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Lumine
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2014, 12:18:19 PM »

Bump, what's next here?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2014, 06:41:32 PM »

Problem is... we need to get an idea of cost... hmmm
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DemPGH
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 07:47:26 PM »

I can appoint SirNick, who is eager and willing to be GM, on the 19th - not today (17th). So that's the update there. Aside from cost issues, some measures to prevent abuse of this would be needed (because it's pretty broad), but we can worry about that once we get some cost figures.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2014, 07:49:05 PM »

I can appoint SirNick, who is eager and willing to be GM, on the 19th - not today (17th). So that's the update there. Aside from cost issues, some measures to prevent abuse of this would be needed (because it's pretty broad), but we can worry about that once we get some cost figures.

Let's wait until we have a GM, then can add details ...
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 05:46:56 PM »

Dear heavens, this brings back memories. Tongue
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Lumine
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 10:01:21 PM »

Now that we have a GM, bump!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2014, 04:04:59 PM »

In fact I ran across some postings that I made in relation to the previous debate on this bill. Hopefully we can move forward now.
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Lumine
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2014, 07:42:11 PM »

Polnut, have you asked GM SirNick for a cost analysis?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 05:11:46 PM »

Four days does not give me comfort.
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Lumine
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2014, 10:28:20 AM »

Senators, this has been waiting for a very long time and since we have lost the GM (again) it seems it will have to wait even more. Any chance we could table this and return to it at a later date?
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Lumine
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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2014, 06:25:46 PM »

Motion to table.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2014, 09:25:58 PM »

It's heartbreaking to see this happen again.

But we cannot do it justice without the GM giving us an idea of costs.
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TNF
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2014, 10:23:52 AM »

I second the motion.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2014, 06:20:00 PM »

Not again.
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Lumine
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2014, 06:23:34 PM »

Very well, a vote to table this bill has now started. Senators, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2014, 06:26:54 PM »

Aye Guess
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Lumine
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2014, 06:27:59 PM »

Aye.
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