Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum
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  Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum
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Poll
Question: Should Scotland be an independent country?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 148

Author Topic: Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum  (Read 6303 times)
pendragon
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« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2014, 02:29:34 PM »

I'm actually rather neutral on Scottish Independence, I've never been there, never plan to and I don't think I've ever actually met a Scot. If I had a say in the referendum I would vote no, but I wouldn't weep if Scotland did leave the Union.

You've never met a Scot?  I've met several, and I'm not even British...
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Supersonic
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« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2014, 02:31:50 PM »

I'm actually rather neutral on Scottish Independence, I've never been there, never plan to and I don't think I've ever actually met a Scot. If I had a say in the referendum I would vote no, but I wouldn't weep if Scotland did leave the Union.

You've never met a Scot?  I've met several, and I'm not even British...

Indeed, I have never.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2014, 02:36:03 PM »

The poll result is very amusing
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afleitch
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« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2014, 02:40:14 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2014, 02:42:09 PM »
« Edited: September 14, 2014, 03:07:03 PM by Tetro Kornbluth »

You guys do realize that the economic arguments you are using for why Scotland should not leave the UK are similar to points made by anti-Free Staters in the 1920s as to why the Irish Free State would be a failure, right?

The Irish Free State was much poorer back then compared to Scotland today. Ireland upon independence didn't have a welfare state, free education or an international banking sector. Scotland has all of that, which makes the picture more complicated.

Again, there are important non-economic reasons for voting for independence. But for the Yes campaign to promise that an independent Scotland will have free higher education and subsidized daycare in 10-15 years is pure fantasy. If Scotland can vote to leave the UK, Scots can also vote with their feet.

Actually it's a pretty common argument here that until the 1960s (if not later) Irish independence was a failure and economic disaster.
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BRTD
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« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2014, 02:43:18 PM »
« Edited: September 14, 2014, 02:47:03 PM by black and white band photos »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2014, 02:45:00 PM »

I mostly agree with Foucaulf; though I'd replace his worry about right-wing populism (not really much of an issue there I'd think) with a worry about how Scottish independence would be a pro-Tory gerrymander in the rest of the UK.  And, yes, that is a legitimate thing to care about.

No it's not. The Scottish don't owe the rest of Britain a Labour government.

Not to mention that the importance of Labour's Scottish seats are overrated but that's not particularly relevant in this context.

Well "owe" is not the sort of framing I'd use, but as someone who is not a Scot or an Englander, but who does care about the well-being of people who live in all parts of the island, it's obviously a perfectly legitimate concern to have. And it's a perfectly legitimate reason to favor one side or another, keeping in mind of course that it's not actually my decision to make.

Scotland has had remarkable growth rates in recent years in sectors like farmed salmonds,

Nice Freudian typo there. Tongue

I mostly agree with Foucaulf; though I'd replace his worry about right-wing populism (not really much of an issue there I'd think) with a worry about how Scottish independence would be a pro-Tory gerrymander in the rest of the UK.  And, yes, that is a legitimate thing to care about.

If Scotland was proposing to have its own currency (and would be allowed to have one by the EU they would like to be a part of) then I would look more favorably upon the "Yes" crew.  But their current "solution" to the currency issue is obviously bad, and obviously looms large.

England has in several post-war elections produced a Labour majority of its own and can do so again.

Its not up to the EU to decide whether Scotland should have its own currency. But I agree its a mistake not to create one, even if its understandable from a tactical POV.They can, however, decide to create one at a later date, so I think there is far too much emphasis on the currency question.

The EU requires new members to join the Euro.  Scotland would be a new member.  So, even if it shouldn't be, it is. Unless Scotland wants to stay outside of the EU?
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politicus
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« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2014, 02:47:13 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi

So releasing a felon with  terminal prostate cancer is your reason to hate the SNP?
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BRTD
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« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2014, 02:50:41 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi

So releasing a felon with  terminal prostate cancer is your reason to hate the SNP?

That and that I oppose all nationalist parties on principle. After all "nationalist parties" is a category wide enough it also includes Golden Dawn.

Might I point out the SNP kept claiming that he had only about three months to live at the time of release. That clearly wasn't true.
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Frodo
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« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2014, 02:52:43 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi

So releasing a felon with  terminal prostate cancer is your reason to hate the SNP?

Don't act so surprised.  We all should be aware of BRTD's peculiarities by now -his obsession with opebo not least of them.  Tongue
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2014, 02:58:27 PM »

OK, I'm quite conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I see no reason to oppose the Scottish independence, if voters elect so. After all, every nation has a right of self-determination and Scotland would do just fine on her own.

On the other, I must confess I'm uneasy with a prospect of Tory-dominated UK politics if Scotland leaves.
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afleitch
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« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2014, 02:59:04 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

What's yucky about the SNP? I'd like to actually know your well thought out reasons on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi

So releasing a felon with  terminal prostate cancer is your reason to hate the SNP?

That and that I oppose all nationalist parties on principle. After all "nationalist parties" is a category wide enough it also includes Golden Dawn.


Given that Christianity is a category 'wide enough' that it includes the Lord's Resistance Army then by that reasoning, you must hate yourself on principle.
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BRTD
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« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2014, 03:04:31 PM »

The Lord's Resistance Army clearly don't follow the teachings of Jesus. But Golden Dawn do epitomize nationalism. And nationalism is also basically completely incompatible with Christianity, which was one of the good points Bill Maher made in his documentary movie.

But a simpler summary might be that I'm unpersuaded by "RAR RAR NATIONALISM!" or "We can keep all the oil money and run the economy on that!" when the oil isn't going to be around or in high demand much longer.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2014, 03:35:20 PM »

Doesn't everybody love how BRTD thinks it's nationalistic for Scottish people to vote against remaining in the UK but not at all nationalistic for Scotland to stay in the UK due to "muh UNITED KINGDOM!" or that "we are all in this thing together!"?
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2014, 03:37:19 PM »

Does BRTD have any knowledge whatsoever about world history?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2014, 03:38:01 PM »

Doesn't everybody love how BRTD thinks it's nationalistic for Scotland to want to break away from the UK but not at all nationalistic for Scotland to stay in the UK due to "muh UNITED KINGDOM!" or that "we are all in this thing together!"?

because it makes the queen cry
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Cassius
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« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2014, 03:44:30 PM »

The SNP hasn't actually been particularly 'nationalist', as such, during this campaign. Rather, the main thrust of their campaign seems to have been that only independence can save Scotland from the nasty Tories (although that does beg the question, what of the 15% of the Scottish population with a favourable attitude towards the Tories Tongue)
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BRTD
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« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2014, 03:49:58 PM »

Funny because the Tories would love Scottish independence.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2014, 03:51:55 PM »

Funny because the Tories would love Scottish independence.

You know that unionism is one of the primary pillars of the Conservative Party, yes? And Scotland's importance to Labour is vastly overrated.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2014, 03:56:55 PM »

Funny because the Tories would love Scottish independence.

Thanks again for demonstrating that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
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Cassius
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« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2014, 04:01:34 PM »

Funny because the Tories would love Scottish independence.

You know that unionism is one of the primary pillars of the Conservative Party, yes? And Scotland's importance to Labour is vastly overrated.

I wouldn't call it vastly overrated. The permanent Tory majority is a myth granted, but the loss of Scotland, along with 41 (and possibly more, after the next election) Labour seats and some of the party's top talent would severely weaken it. I mean, imagine if Kent, Surrey, Sussex and Essex became independent. It wouldn't mean a 'permanent Labour majority', but it would make things a damnsight harder for the Tories.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the last time Labour won without needing their Scottish seats was when they were led by a man now widely reviled by portions of his own party, advocating policies which some in his party were at best lukewarm about.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2014, 04:28:56 PM »

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

You do realize SNP is basically social democratic?
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2014, 04:31:41 PM »

Absolutely not.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2014, 05:55:17 PM »

Breaking up the cancerous Empire is bad now?

The Empire broke up decades before either you or I were born. While it existed nowhere did it find as much support as in Scotland. Whatever this is about, it's not that.
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BRTD
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« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2014, 06:01:26 PM »
« Edited: September 14, 2014, 06:07:08 PM by black and white band photos »

Breaking up the cancerous Empire is bad now?

The Empire broke up decades before either you or I were born. While it existed nowhere did it find as much support as in Scotland. Whatever this is about, it's not that.

Actually...

(Yeah I know, that's not an empire. But still an interesting piece of trivia.)
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