Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum

[they don't love you like i love you]

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

You do realize SNP is basically social democratic?

From what I understand they are still to the right of Labour. Or at least the Scottish wing of Labour. I remember Bono found them OK (and said they're still a generally a pro-market party) and remember that Tory afleitch doesn't seem to mind them.

[Thomas D]

Yes.

Because this would be the kind of harmless chaos That I love.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The SNP has no coherent ideology over than the obvious (which is more than enough). It does have some genuine radicals in it, but most of its bills are paid for by businessmen with profoundly reactionary views. The Salmond government in Holyrood has leaned towards doing whatever is popular (i.e. moar public spending), which is a sensible strategy for such a party. In the event of an independent Scotland it would probably turn into a party of the state, ala Fianna Fail.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Yes.

Because this would be the kind of harmless chaos That I love.

For you perhaps.

[Thomas D]

Yes.

Because this would be the kind of harmless chaos That I love.

For you perhaps.

Harmless in that no one is going to die.

[TNF]

Yes, Scottish independence would be the first in a hopefully successful series of blows against Anglo-American imperialism. It should be welcomed and supported by all progressive minded persons.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

You do realize SNP is basically social democratic?

From what I understand they are still to the right of Labour. Or at least the Scottish wing of Labour. I remember Bono found them OK (and said they're still a generally a pro-market party) and remember that Tory afleitch doesn't seem to mind them.

Still, putting them in the same category as f**king Golden Dawn Nazis is... bizzare, to say least.

There is a huge difference between Golden Dawn or Jobbik-style nationalism and merely wanting your country to be independent.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I don't trust the SNP or Salmond as far as I can throw them (though they are better than Plaid which have always annoyed me intensely for inexplicable reasons). They are Murdoch backed ideology-free hacks who want to rush to a race to the bottom (their corporation tax policy comes to mind). Also the new Scotland's policies seem like having your cake and eating it too (e.g. we'll remove nuclear weapons ... but still be part of the nuclear umbrella). I'm pretty sure they'll go down Fianna Fail-style one day.

However, I can recognise independence is bigger than a party or a politician, and I sympathise with Scots trying to govern their own country. I answered "no", but wish them well if they so chose to leave.

That said, I hope we start to move past the idea of nation-states soon enough. Globalisation is unavoidable and irreversible and national parliaments would do best to start devolving their powers both up (to supranational organisations) and down (to local and state governments).

[Joe Republic]

The poll result is very amusing

Can you really see it?  Mod privilege, I guess?

Keep it under wraps though, plz

[Bacon King]

The poll result is very amusing

Can you really see it?  Mod privilege, I guess?

Keep it under wraps though, plz

yep for some reason we can see hidden poll results on our own boards

[they don't love you like i love you]

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

You do realize SNP is basically social democratic?

From what I understand they are still to the right of Labour. Or at least the Scottish wing of Labour. I remember Bono found them OK (and said they're still a generally a pro-market party) and remember that Tory afleitch doesn't seem to mind them.

Still, putting them in the same category as f**king Golden Dawn Nazis is... bizzare, to say least.

There is a huge difference between Golden Dawn or Jobbik-style nationalism and merely wanting your country to be independent.

But why should it be independent? It's not a persecuted country or one under brutal occupation ala those Caucasus regions in Russia or East Timor under Indonesia or anything. And it has a fully devolved parliament as well, and is no less culturally distinct from the rest of the UK as New York is from Oklahoma. The only arguments I can hear are "RAR RAR NATIONALISM!" or "Let's keep the oil and use it to boost the economy forever!" which isn't going to crumble HARD in about a decade if done.

Also another Fianna Fail is not a positive prospect.

[Panda Express]

I don't care a whole lot one way or the other but if you're going to make Scotland independent, you might as well just go ahead and rip off the entire band-aid and give Wales independence and give Northern Ireland back to Ireland. Put the "United" Kingdom out of it's misery.

[Keystone Phil]

you might as well just go ahead and rip off the entire band-aid and give Wales independence and give Northern Ireland back to Ireland. Put the "United" Kingdom out of it's misery.

Exactly my position (or, hell, even having a totally independent Northern Ireland but ideally, Ireland would be united again) but Wales would never want to be independent.

[Simfan34]

no of course not

and if they do vote yes, then the queen should raise the peasant levies and send prince charles north with a grand army to quash the would-be rebels

Ban finger bowls!

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Does anyone know what channels will have full coverage of the results? I'd imagine CSPAN will air the BBC coverage but I haven't heard anything official.

[andrew_c]

Does anyone know what channels will have full coverage of the results? I'd imagine CSPAN will air the BBC coverage but I haven't heard anything official.

I doubt the coverage would be available on TV outside of Europe (except possibly on BBC World News).  In my opinion, your best bet would be BBC or Sky News webcasts.

[Keystone Phil]

C-SPAN did have live coverage of the 2005 and 2010 British Parliamentary elections so it's a possibility that we'll get coverage there again.

[King]

I'd vote Yes because No winning wouldn't be newsworthy and make this a waste.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

By the way, I called C-SPAN and they said that they will know by this time tomorrow if they will be covering it via BBC. If the BBC allowed election night coverage, they most likely will allow referendum coverage. So our best bet is C-SPAN.

[Joe Republic]

By the way, I called C-SPAN and they said that they will know by this time tomorrow if they will be covering it via BBC. If the BBC allowed election night coverage, they most likely will allow referendum coverage. So our best bet is C-SPAN.

...

[Oakvale]

atlas.txt

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'd rather have all of the UK under a Labour government than it minus Scotland under a Tory government and Scotland under some yucky nationalist government.

You do realize SNP is basically social democratic?

From what I understand they are still to the right of Labour. Or at least the Scottish wing of Labour. I remember Bono found them OK (and said they're still a generally a pro-market party) and remember that Tory afleitch doesn't seem to mind them.

Still, putting them in the same category as f**king Golden Dawn Nazis is... bizzare, to say least.

There is a huge difference between Golden Dawn or Jobbik-style nationalism and merely wanting your country to be independent.

But why should it be independent? It's not a persecuted country or one under brutal occupation ala those Caucasus regions in Russia or East Timor under Indonesia or anything. And it has a fully devolved parliament as well, and is no less culturally distinct from the rest of the UK as New York is from Oklahoma. The only arguments I can hear are "RAR RAR NATIONALISM!" or "Let's keep the oil and use it to boost the economy forever!" which isn't going to crumble HARD in about a decade if done.

Well, we may argue whether Scotland would be better off as independent, or should remaining in the UK, but it's not our decision, as whichever decision Scottish voters make, why should respect it.

Right to self-determination is one of the basic fundamentals of the UN charter.

[Mr. Illini]

You damn know it. Anyone identifying this as simply nationalistic (calling it that doesn't mean much without the context) is missing the strong political reasons for doing this, mainly that Scotland has been under the grip of conservative England while its citizens are significantly more socialist. Scotland ought to be able to chart its own path on these issues.

The most unfortunate part about this is the boost that it will give to the Tories.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

...

Al nailed it, again.