Were there any big cities in the South pre-1860?
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  Were there any big cities in the South pre-1860?
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Author Topic: Were there any big cities in the South pre-1860?  (Read 12702 times)
Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2014, 10:49:59 AM »

How can you have a state without any cities?

You can easily have a state without big cities.

In 1820, there were 7 states that didn't have any cities - big or small. How is it possible that, say, Dover DE wasn't a city?
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2014, 11:03:10 AM »

How can you have a state without any cities?

You can easily have a state without big cities.

In 1820, there were 7 states that didn't have any cities - big or small. How is it possible that, say, Dover DE wasn't a city?

Anything under 2,500 people doesn't count as a city for historical Census purposes.

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html#urban
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2014, 11:07:17 AM »

The thing you need to understand is that 'big' is entirely relative.
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2014, 12:05:07 PM »
« Edited: September 22, 2014, 12:06:46 PM by shua »


This must be for the present area of Virginia Beach, which was then Princess Anne County (until the 1960s when it became the City of Virginia Beach). So not a city but a county with a number of scattered villages and towns. I don't know if the town that was known as "Virginia Beach" in the late 19th century was around yet but if it was it wasn't more than a few hundred people.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2014, 12:30:51 PM »

By 1830, you are starting to see development of inland cities, but they were dependent on transportation, usually by water.  The Erie Canal was completed in 1825, bringing several cities to the list.

Portland 13K

Portsmouth 8K
Dover 5K

Boston 61K (18K more in Charlestown, Roxbury, and Dorchester)
Salem 14K
Charlestown 9K
New Bedford 8K
Gloucester 8K
Nantucket 8K
Springfield 7K
Lowell 6K
Newburyport 6K
Lynn 6K
Cambridge 6K
Taunton 6K
Roxbury 5K
Marblehead 5K
Middleborough 5K

Providence 17K
Newport 8K
Warwick 6K

New Haven 10K
Hartford 7K

New York 202K
Albany 24K
Brooklyn 12K
Troy 12K
Rochester 9K
Buffalo 9K
Utica 8K
Hudson 8K

Newark 11K

Philadelphia 80K (164K, including Northern Liberties 29K, Southwark 21K, Kensington 13, Spring Garden 12K, Moyamensing 7K).
Pittsburgh 13K (15K including Allegheny)
Lancaster 8K
Reading 6K

Baltimore 81K

Washington 19K
Georgetown 8K
Alexandria 8K

Richmond 16K
Norfolk 10K
Petersburg 8K

Charleston 30K

Savannah 7K
Augusta 7K

Cincinnati 25K

Louisville 10K
Lexington 6K

Nashville 6K

Largest cities less than 5K:

St.Louis, MO 5K-
New Bern, NC 4K
Mobile, AL 3K
Natchez, MS 3K

City-less states: VT, DE, IN, IL
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jimrtex
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2014, 01:27:47 PM »

In 1820, there were 7 states that didn't have any cities - big or small. How is it possible that, say, Dover DE wasn't a city?
Dover was not incorporated until 1829, even though it the capital since 1777.

A legislature would only need to meet a week or two, once a year.  In November 1787, Delawareans elected 30 delegates (10 from each county) to the ratification convention for the US Constitution.  They met on December 4, and ratified the Constitution on December 7 (Tuesday to Friday).

In the first congressional election in 1789, about 2000 votes were cast for Delaware's sole representative.  Nobody could afford to take much time off to be a legislator.  Throughout most of the 19th century, Delaware's Senate had 9 members, and its House 21 members.  Think how tiny capitals such as Frankfort, Montpelier, or Pierre are even today.

In 1830, Cincinnati had 25K (more than doubling from 1820), but the next largest cities in Ohio, all had about 3K (Dayton, Chillicothe, Zanesville, and Steubenville).   Chillicothe and Zanesville both served as early capitals.  When Columbus was named the capital in 1812, it didn't exist.  The move occurred in 1816, but Columbus did not become a city until 1834.

While Ohio had cities in 1830, Indiana and Illinois did not.  But Ohio had 3 times the population of Indiana, and about 6 times that of Illinois.
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muon2
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2014, 04:49:57 PM »

I'm surprised that Kaskaskia, IL didn't show up on the list. It's the oldest city in the state and the site of the territorial government and the first state capital. It was a significant river town in the 1700's and at the time of statehood they claimed a population of about 7K.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2014, 06:58:10 PM »

I'm surprised that Kaskaskia, IL didn't show up on the list. It's the oldest city in the state and the site of the territorial government and the first state capital. It was a significant river town in the 1700's and at the time of statehood they claimed a population of about 7K.
I am dubious of the claim of 7K.

In 1810, the population for Illinois Territory was 12,282 divided between the Randolph and St.Clair counties (the two counties that covered most of Illinois when it was part of Indiana Territory).  The 12,282 may have included a very few in present-day Wisconsin; but even by 1820 the population of Wisconsin, which had been transferred to Michigan Territory, was only 1,444.

Randolph County had 7,275 in 1810; while St.Clair had 5,007.   But without tracking down a map, I would assume that Randolph extended east to the Wabash, and would have included the Ohio River, picking up lots of pioneers who had come down the Ohio or across from Kentucky.

In 1820, the new state of Illinois had 55,211 persons and had been divided into 19 counties.  Randolph had 3,492 (after having provided for 10 counties, plus parts of 5 others).   Madison was the most populous in 1820, with 13,550, but that was because it had not yet been divided (Jo Daviess was partially created from Madison), though Alton may have been founded by then.

Fayette County (home of Vandalia, where the state capital was located) had not been created, but its progenitors counties only had about 6,000 persons, which argues against a wholesale movement from Kaskaskia when the capital was relocated.

There may have been settlers who took refuge in Kaskaskia during the War of 1812.  And there may have been descendants of French traders and Indians who were not counted, whose residency might have been intermittent.   But I can't find anything to support the 7,000 figure other than it is repeated a lot.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2014, 12:55:59 AM »
« Edited: September 23, 2014, 02:46:50 PM by jimrtex »

1850

In areas of the country without formal county subdivisions, populations of cities were often estimated from census returns.

Portland 15K
Bangor 9K
Augusta 8K

Manchester 14K
Portsmouth 10K
Concord 9K

Burlington 6K
Bennington 4K
Rutland 4K

Boston 137K (with Roxbury, Charlestown, and Dorchester 183K)
Lowell 34K
Salem 20K
Roxbury 18K
Charlestown 17K
Worcester 17K
New Bedford 16K
Cambridge 15K
Lynn 14K
Springfield 12K
Fall River 12K
Taunton 10K.

Providence 42K
Smithfield 12K
Newport 10K

New Haven 20K
Hartford 14K
Norwich 10K

New York 516K
Brooklyn 97K (with Williamsburgh 128K; with all of Kings County 138K)
Albany 51K
Buffalo 42K
Rochester 36K
Williamsburgh 30K
Troy 29K
Syracuse 22K
Utica 18K
Poughkeepsie 14K
Oswego 12K
Lockport 12K
Newburg(h) 11K.

Newark 39K
Paterson 11K
New Brunswick 10K

Philadelphia 121K (with Spring Garden, Northern Liberties, Kensington, Southwark, and Moyamensing 344K; entire Philadelphia County 409K)
Spring Garden 59K
Northern Liberties 47K
Kensington 47K
Pittsburgh 47K (with Allegheny 68K)
Southwark 39K
Moyamensing 27K
Allegheny 21K
Reading 16K
Lancaster 12K

Wilmington 14K
Milford and Mispillion hundreds 6K
Murder Hill hundred 6K.

Baltimore 169K
Cumberland 6K
Frederick(town) 6K.

Washington 40K
Georgetown 8K
(Alexandria returned to Virginia).

Richmond 28K
Norfolk 14K
Petersburg 14K
Wheeling 11K

Willmington 7K
New Bern (Newbern) 5K
Fayetteville 5K.

Charleston 43K
Columbia 6K

Savannah 15K
Augusta (12K in 1852)
Columbus 6K

Pensacola 2K
St.Augustine 2K
Jacksonville 1K

Mobile 21K
Montgomery 9K
Huntsville 3K

Natchez 4K
Vicksburg 4K
Columbus 2K

New Orleans 116K (with Lafayette 131K)
Lafayette 14K (this was a city in Jefferson Parish, which was annexed to New Orleans (and Orleans Parish)
Baton Rouge 4K.

Galveston 4K
San Antonio 3K
Houston 2K

Little Rock 2K

Nashville 10K
Memphis 9K
Knoxville 3K

Louisville 43K
Covington 9K
Lexington 8K (est)

St.Louis 78K

Chicago 30K
Quincy 7K
Galena 6K

New Albany 8K
Indianapolis 8K
Madison 8K

Cincinnati 115K
Columbus 18K
Cleveland 18K
Dayton 17K

Detroit 21K
Monroe 3K
Grand Rapids 3K
Kalamazoo 3K

Milwaukee 20K
Racine 5K
Kenosha 3K

Burlington 4K
Fairfield 1K
Iowa City 1K

Sacramento 7K
Placerville 6K
Nevada City 3K

Territories

St.Paul 1K

Santa Fe 5K

Portland 1K
Madison 2K
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jimrtex
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« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2014, 11:04:21 AM »

1860

For 1860, I've listed the three largest cities, plus any others in the USA Top 50 (greater than 18,266).  Top 20 USA in Bold.

Portland 26K
Bangor 16K
Bath 8K

Manchester 20K
Concord 11K
Nashua 10K

Burlington 8K
Rutland 8K
Bennington 4K

Boston 178K (239K if Roxbury, Charlestown, and Dorchester included)
Lowell 37K
Cambridge 26K
Roxbury 25K
Charlestown 25K
Worcester 25K
New Bedford 22K
Salem 22K
Lynn 19K

Providence 51K
North Providence 12K
Newport 11K

New Haven 39K
Hartford 27K
Norwich 14K

New York 814K
Brooklyn 266K (annexed Williamsburgh, but not all of Kings County)
Buffalo 81K
Albany 62K
Rochester 48K
Troy 39K
Syracuse 28K
Utica 23K

Newark 72K
Jersey City 29K
Paterson 20K

Philadelphia 565K (Philadelphia city merged with Philadelphia county)
Pittsburgh 49K (78K with Allegheny)
Allegheny 29K
Reading 23K

Wilmington 21K
Murderkill 7K
Christiana 5K

Baltimore 212K
Frederick 8K
Annapolis 5K

Washington 61K
Georgetown 9K

Richmond 38K
Petersburg 18K
Norfolk 15K

Wilmington 10K
New Bern 5K
Fayetteville 5K

Charleston 41K
Columbia ?? (not discerned, but probably less than 10K)
Georgetown 2K
Camden 2K

Savannah 22K
Augusta 12K
Columbus 10K

Pensacola 3K
Key West 3K
Jacksonville 2K

Mobile 29K
Montgomery 9K
Tuscaloosa 4K

Natchez 7K
Vicksburg 5K
Columbus 3K

New Orleans 169K
Donaldsonville 11K
St. Landry 10K

San Antonio 8K
Galveston 7K
Houston 5K

Little Rock 4K
Camden 2K
Fort Smith 2K

Memphis 23K
Nashville 17K
Murfreesboro 3K

Louisville 68K
Covington 16K
Newport 10K

St.Louis 160K
St.Joseph 9K
Hannibal 7K

Chicago 112K
Peoria 14K
Quincy 14K

Indianapolis 19K
New Albany 13K
Evansville 11K

Cincinnati 161K
Cleveland 43K
Dayton 20K
Columbus 19K

Detroit 46K
Grand Rapids 8K
Adrian 6K

Milwaukee 45K
Racine 8K
Madison 6K

St.Paul 10K
St.Anthony 3K (opposite Minneapolis on east bank of Mississippi)
Minneapolis 2K

Dubuque 13K
Davenport 11K
Keokuk 8K

Leavenworth 7K
Atchiston 3K
Wyandott 2K (north of Kansas/Kaw River, on Missouri, now part of KCK)

San Francisco 57K
Sacramento 14K
Marysville 5K

Portland 3K
Eugene 2K

Territories

South Park 11K (near Fairplay)
Denver 5K
California Gulch 3K (near Leadville)

Pembina 4K

Nebraska City 2K
Omaha 2K

Virginia City 2K

Santa Fe 5K
Mesilla 2K

Salt Lake City 8K
Provo 2K
Ogden 2K

(none in Washington Territory)
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muon2
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« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2014, 01:26:35 PM »

It's impressive to me how Chicago made it from non-existence in 1830 (founded in 1833 with 200 residents) into the top 10 in the US by 1860. Of course it continued its explosive growth to be in the  the world top 10 by 1900.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2014, 09:25:35 PM »
« Edited: September 25, 2014, 07:13:46 PM by jimrtex »

1870

Top 3 in each state or territory, plus all cities in Top 50 in USA (greater than 26,766).
Top 20 USA in bold, cities not in Top 100 in Red (less than 14,030).  Cities making first appearance in italics.

VT, NC, FL, MS, TX, AR, NV, and OR had no Top 100 cities.

Portland 31K
Bangor 18K
Lewiston 14K

Manchester 24K
Concord 12K
Nashua 11K

I had always thought Concord to be an out of the way place, but it was a significant town by New Hampshire standards, having moved past the early leader Portsmouth, but falling behind the mill towns.

Burlington 14K
Rutland 10K
St Johnsbury 5K

Boston 251K (279K if Charlestown included)
Worcester 41K
Lowell 41K
Cambridge 40K
Lawrence 29K
Charlestown 28K
Lynn 28K
Fall River 27K

Boston annexed Roxbury and Dorchester during decade.

Providence 69K
North Providence 20K
Newport 13K

New Haven 51K
Hartford 37K
Bridgewater 19K

New York 942K
Brooklyn 396K
Buffalo 118K
Albany 69K
Rochester 62K
Troy 46K
Syracuse 43K
Utica 29K

Newark 105K
Jersey City 83K
Paterson 34K

Philadelphia 674K
Pittsburgh 86K (139K with Allegheny)
Allegheny 53K
Scranton 35K
Reading 34K

Wilmington 31K
Smyrna 2K
New Castle 2k

This is the first census for which urban areas were clearly delineated for Delaware.

Baltimore 267K
Frederick 9K
Cumberland 8K

Washington 109K
Georgetown 11K

Richmond 51K
Norfolk 19K
Petersburg 19K

Wilmington 13K
Raleigh 8k
New Bern(e) 6k

Charleston 49K
Columbia 9K
Greenville 3K

Savannah 28K
Atlanta 22K
Augusta 15K

Jacksonville 7K
Key West 5K
Pensacola 3K

Detroit 80K
Grand Rapids 17K
Jackson 11K

Milwaukee 71K
Fond du Lac 13K
Oshkosh 13K

Cincinnati 216K
Cleveland 93K
Toledo 32K
Columbus 31K
Dayton 30K

Indianapolis 48K
Evansville 22K
Fort Wayne 18K

Chicago 299K
Quincy 24K
Peoria 23K

Chicago not quite the largest city in the West.

Wheeling 19K
Parkersburg 6K
Martinsburg 5K

Wheeling would have been second largest city in Virginia.

Louisville 101K
Covington 25K
Newport 15K

Memphis 40K
Nashville 26K
Knoxville 9K

Mobile 32K
Montgomery 11K
Selma 6K

Vicksburg 12K
Natchez 9K
Columbus 5K

St Paul 20K
Minneapolis 13K (18K with St.Anthony)
Winona 7K

Davenport 20K
Dubuque 18K
Burlington 15K

St.Louis 311K
Kansas City 32K
St.Joseph 20K

Little Rock 12K
Van Buren 3K
Helena 2K

New Orleans 191K
Baton Rouge 6K
Shreveport 5k

Yankton 4K

Omaha 16K
Nebraska City 6K
Lincoln 2K

Leavenworth 18K
Lawrence 8K
Atchison 7K

Galveston 14K
San Antonio 12K
Houston 9K

Helena 3K

Cheyenne 1K

Denver 5K
Central City 2K
Black Hawk 1K

Santa Fe 5K
Mesilla 2K
Albuquerque 1K

Boise City 1K

Virginia City 7K
Gold Hill 4K
Carson City 3K

Salt Lake City 13K
Ogden 3K
Provo 2K

Tucson 3K
Arizona City 1K

Walla Walla 1K
Olympia1K
Seattle 1K

Portland 8K
Oregon City 1K
Eugene 1K

San Francisco 149K
Sacramento 16K
Oakland 10K
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« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2014, 07:45:11 PM »
« Edited: October 09, 2014, 03:16:56 AM by jimrtex »

1880

Top 20 USA cities have 100K+.  Top 50 more than 35,000.  Top 100 more than 19,700.  For each state or territory, top 3 are shown, along with additional cities in USA Top 50.  Top 20 in bold, New to list in italics.  Cities not in Top 10 in red.

First appearance of Brattleboro(VT), Pawtucket(RI), Dover(DE), Charlotte(NC), Bay City(MI), Jackson(MS), Des Moines(IA), Eureka Springs(AR), Deadwood(DK), Fargo(DK), Topeka(KS), Butte(MT), Fort Benton(MT), Laramie(MT), Rawlins(MT), Leadville(CO), Silver Cliff(CO), Silver City(NM), Prescott(AZ), Phoenix(AZ), East Portland(OR), Astoria(OR)

MA (7), NY(7), NJ(4), PA(5), and OH(5) have more than 3 cities in Top 50.

VT, NC, FL, MS, AR, KS, NV and OR have no cities in Top 100.  Kansas is added to the list, as Leavenworth falters, and threshold increases.

Portland 34K
Lewiston 19K
Bangor 10K

Manchester 33K
Concord14K
Nashua 13K

Burlington 12K
Rutland 8K
Brattleboro 4K

Boston 363K
Lowell 59K
Worcester 58K
Cambridge 53K
Fall River 49K
Lawrence 39K
Lynn 38K

Boston annexes Charlestown, Brighton, and West Roxbury.

Providence 105K
Pawtucket 20K
Woonsocket 17K

New Haven 63K
Hartford 42K
Bridgewater 28K

New York 1206K
Brooklyn 567K
Buffalo 155K
Albany 91K
Rochester 89K
Troy 57K
Syracuse 52K

New York City becomes first million plus American city.

Newark 137K
Jersey City 121K
Paterson 51K
Camden 42K

Philadelphia 847K
Pittsburgh 156K (235K with Allegheny)
Allegheny 79K
Scranton 46K
Reading 43K

Wilmington 42K
New Castle 4K
Dover 3K

Baltimore 332K
Cumberland 11K
Frederick 9K

Washington 147K
Georgetown 13K

Richmond 64K
Norfolk 22K
Petersburg 22K

Wilmington 17K
Raleigh 9K
Charlotte 7K

Charleston 50K
Columbia 10K
Greenville 6K

Atlanta 37K
Savannah 30K
Augusta 22K

Key West 10K
Jacksonville 8K
Pensacola 7K

Detroit 116K
Grand Rapids 32K
Bay City 21K

Milwaukee 116K
Racine 16K
Oshkosh 15K

Cincinnati 255K
Cleveland 160K
Columbus 52K
Toledo 50K
Dayton 39K

Indianapolis 75K
Evansville 29K
Fort Wayne 27K

Chicago 503K
Peoria 29K
Quincy 27K

Chicago is 3rd largest city in country.

Wheeling 31K
Parkersburg 7K
Martinsburg 6K

Louisville 124K
Covington 30K
Newport 20K

Nashville 43K
Memphis 34k
Chattanooga 13K

Mobile 29K
Montgomery 17K
Selma 8K

Vicksburg 12K
Natchez 7K
Jackson 5K

Minneapolis 47K
St.Paul 41K
Winona 10K

Des Moines 22K
Dubuque 22K
Davenport 22K

St.Louis 351K
Kansas City 56K
St.Joseph 32K

Little Rock 13K
Eureka Springs 4K
Helena 4K

New Orleans 216K
Shreveport 8K
Baton Rouge 7K

Deadwood 4K
Fargo 3K
Yankton 3K

Omaha 31K
Lincoln 13K
Nebraska City 4K

Leavenworth 17K
Topeka 15K
Atchison 15K

It is interesting that at the time, it made sense to have railroad companies with names like Atchison, Burlington, and Quincy as part of their names.

Galveston 22K
San Antonio 20K
Houston 17K

Helena 4K
Butte 3K
Fort Benton 3K

Cheyenne 3K
Laramie 2K
Rawlins 1K

Denver 36K
Leadville 14K
Silver Cliff 5K

Santa Fe 7K
Albuquerque 3K
Silver City 2K

Boise City 2K

Virginia City 11K
Gold Hill 4K
Carson City 4K

Salt Lake City 21K
Ogden 6K
Provo 3K

Salt Lake City becomes second Top 100 city in a territory, sharing that honor along with the Jazz with New Orleans.

Tucson 7K
Prescott 2K
Phoenix 2K

Walla Walla 4K
Seattle 4K
Olympia 1K

Portland 18K
East Portland 3K
Astoria 3K

San Francisco 234K
Oakland 35K
Sacramento 21K
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