Scottish independence referendum results thread (Sept 18, 2014)

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

If they can't even count their votes in a timely manner, how could they even run their own country?

[eric82oslo]

Shetland:

Total: 15,635

Yes: 5,669 (36%)
No: 9,951 (64%)

Turnout: 84.4%

Where are you getting the figures from? I have the Daily Mail's website open, and Shetland's not on there yet:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2761704/SCOTLAND-REFERENDUM-RESULTS-LIVE-Follow-results-historic-vote-announced-interactive-map.html

BBC Scotland's live stream.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Just for the sake of argument, if Yes did win, would Scotland remain part of the EU? Would they have to apply and wait years for admission? Would they be forced to adopt the Euro?

They would almost certainly have to reapply as an independent nation, which would take a couple years, but nothing crazy (as long as they don't completely flunk the transition to independence).

But no, no nation is "forced" to adopt the Euro.

Sort of. If you wanna join the EU and meet the necessary requirements for membership of the EMU you have to join it. Of the existing EU-members UK and Denmark have exceptions and Sweden artificially make sure they don't meet all the requirements, Scotland could do the same, but it would be frowned upon.

What would the EU even do if a nation fulfilled all the requirements but didn't adopt the Euro? Kick them out? Put sanctions on them? Wage financial warfare?

[DL]

Why are Orkney and Shetland so anti-independence?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Can someone explain why all these British politicians are now insisting variously that things need to change ASAP and fast reform is necessary and the Act of Union should be renegotiated and more powers should be devolved to England and Wales etc etc?? Especially given the fact that it looks like No will win handily.

haha.  Because they're politicians, of course.  What would you do if you were president Lincoln and the legislatures of SC and 12 other states just narrowly decided that they wanted to remain part of the US?  Unfortunately for the US--but perhaps fortunately for the 12 million or so negro servants in the US at the time--the legislatures of SC and those 12 other states did not narrowly decide that they wanted to remain, but if they did then you'd probably try to figure out what pissed them off in the first place.

If a part of your household is irked enough by you to make a scene in public about it, but not so enraged at you that it packs its collective bags and divorces you outright, you'd be smart to make amends, right?

Sure, I understand that. But if the No vote is rather decisive, as in +5% or so, I don't really see the need to make reforms as extensive as they're making it sound. Perhaps they're just dramatizing in their tweets and statements and press releases. But it just seems like the Conservatives and the No camp in general have betrayed a shocking lack of confidence or belief in the United Kingdom as it is. Their last-minute desperation offer of "devo-max" to Scotland was truly pathetic, and it's not so clear to me that it helped their cause much at all.

Did you read my post?  The plans they want to make now are a necessity because of devolving more to Scotland, which they have to do because it's been promised.  If they renege on that promise, it'd be a disaster for the Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems, and we'd have another referendum very soon.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If they can't even count their votes in a timely manner, how could they even run their own country?

You're joking, right?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

We were supposed to have ~8 regions in right now, and only have 3.

Even Missouri could count these ballots faster.....

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

If they can't even count their votes in a timely manner, how could they even run their own country?

You're joking, right?

I suppose the humidity down south fried your sarcasm detector.

[jaichind]

Why are Orkney and Shetland so anti-independence?

I think it might has something to do with the fact both islands have been long connected to the British Royal Navy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Accuracy matters more than speed.

[eric82oslo]

Overall:

No: 59.17%
Yes: 40.83%

This is what I'm looking at: http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/results

That looks almost identical to the Quebec vote in 1980 lol. It had a 19% margin. 2nd time it was reduced to a 1.2% margin.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Eilean Siar is about to declare.

[Chancellor of the Duchy of Little Lever and Darcy Lever]

We were supposed to have ~8 regions in right now, and only have 3.

Even Missouri could count these ballots faster.....

I never believed those declaration estimates for a moment.  Add a good couple of hours to all of them.

Compared to your average general election in Scotland, this is slow.  But general elections in Scotland don't get 85% turnouts.  And it could be worse: at least Tower Hamlets aren't involved.

[njwes]

Sure, I understand that. But if the No vote is rather decisive, as in +5% or so, I don't really see the need to make reforms as extensive as they're making it sound. Perhaps they're just dramatizing in their tweets and statements and press releases. But it just seems like the Conservatives and the No camp in general have betrayed a shocking lack of confidence or belief in the United Kingdom as it is. Their last-minute desperation offer of "devo-max" to Scotland was truly pathetic, and it's not so clear to me that it helped their cause much at all.

Did you read my post?  The plans they want to make now are a necessity because of devolving more to Scotland, which they have to do because it's been promised.  If they renege on that promise, it'd be a disaster for the Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems, and we'd have another referendum very soon.

I did read your post and I understand they can't break that promise. I guess I'm just struck by the tone. They sound like politicians who've suffered a defeat rather than vice-versa. I wonder if the party leaders regret offering devolution so hastily due to the results of a single poll.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

Accuracy matters more than speed.

If only we had the technology for voting that is both quick and accurate!

[jaichind]

We were supposed to have ~8 regions in right now, and only have 3.

Even Missouri could count these ballots faster.....

Yes.  But this speed still beats Westchester County of NY which has to be the slowest county in all of USA in terms or vote counting.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If they can't even count their votes in a timely manner, how could they even run their own country?

You're joking, right?

I suppose the humidity down south fried your sarcasm detector.

It did .

[angus]

Sure, I understand that. But if the No vote is rather decisive, as in +5% or so, I don't really see the need to make reforms as extensive as they're making it sound. Perhaps they're just dramatizing in their tweets and statements and press releases. But it just seems like the Conservatives and the No camp in general have betrayed a shocking lack of confidence or belief in the United Kingdom as it is. Their last-minute desperation offer of "devo-max" to Scotland was truly pathetic, and it's not so clear to me that it helped their cause much at all.

That's a prescient, and more subtle, question than I at first apprehended.  My parents spent some time in Scotland and brought back lots of souvenirs when I was young, but I've never been there myself.  I don't have a good feel for how things work there.

I will say that on my last trip to Puerto Rico I arrived just after a referendum on that island's status.  They have those about once every seven years, by the way, and the results are always exactly the same.  About 55% vote for the status quo, to remain a Commonwealth of the United States, and about 40% vote for statehood, and about 5% vote for complete independence, a divorce from the United States, a la South Carolina 1861.  Not sure why, well, actually I have a pretty good idea about it but that's far beyond the scope of this thread, anyway the results are always thus.  Now, suppose they one day decided to vote 51+% in favor of something other than status quo, such as either statehood or independence.  Do you think that the US government would immediately (or ever) act upon its wishes?  I doubt it.  Still, I get the impression that the London government operates under a different set of rules.  I expect that it would be expected to unchain Scotland should it decide in a binding referendum to divorce itself form the UK.  For that reason, and for the reason that unlike PR, the Scots opinion does seem to be monotonically changing (in favor of nationalism), the UK recognizes that it would do well to satisfy some of its demands.

As for the theory that a diminished UK would necessarily result in a diminished US on the world stage, I'm not sure I buy into that, nor do I think that an severed Scotland necessarily amounts to a diminished British presence in the UN in the first place, so I'm not a kneejerk NO supporter (like most Americans).  On the other hand, I'm not a kneejerk YES supporter either.  I'm just along for the ride.  That said, I do enjoy throwing monkey wrenches in the clockworks at every opportunity, so I must admit that I'm just a tiny bit disappointed that it seems to be decided so decisively at this early hour.

[eric82oslo]

Eilean Siar is about to declare.

If there's no substantial yes victory in Comhairle nan Eilean Siar, it's over for the yes campaign I think. It's one of the really big SNP strongholds.

Rumours are that Glasgow is showing a dead heat in the counting, while in Edinburgh the no campaign might lead by as much as 20%, yet both will keep counting for a couple of more hours of course...

[Brittain33]

Why are Orkney and Shetland so anti-independence?

I think it might has something to do with the fact both islands have been long connected to the British Royal Navy.

Shetland's ancestry is Nordic, not Scottish, too.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

We were supposed to have ~8 regions in right now, and only have 3.

Even Missouri could count these ballots faster.....

Yes.  But this speed still beats Westchester County of NY which has to be the slowest county in all of USA in terms or vote counting.

Slower than Santa Rosa County, FL? That was literally the LAST county to come in (in FL) in both 2008 and 2012.

[Torie]

Some Labor political gnome in Scotland predicted based on buzz and results, a 3-2 no vote, just like I did, knowing next to nothing. I have a gift.  Unless of course he's clueless.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Americans, given 2000, have no right to criticize other countries' election procedures.

[ilikeverin]

Scottish Gaelic!  Western Isles!

[eric82oslo]

Western Isles (Comhairle nan Eilean Siar)

0.5% of electorate

All votes: 19,758

Yes: 9,195 (46-6%)
No: 10,544 (53.4%)

Turnout: 86.2%

It's over. Sorry.

I couldn't understand a word of what that guy was saying. It sounded like a mixture of Dutch, Scottish, Gaelic and Irish or something.