Religion
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2024, 04:58:48 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Religion
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3
Author Topic: Religion  (Read 20939 times)
English
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,187


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: December 16, 2003, 05:32:21 AM »

Which religions are inclined to which party? In the UK the votes from each religion seem to go the following....
Anglican- Right (Tory)
Baptist- Right (Tory)
Catholic- Left (Labour)
Buddhist- Left (Labour/Green)
Jewish- Secular, Left (Lab)/Hardline, Right (Tory)
Methodist- Left (Labour)
Muslim- Volatile, usually Left (Labour/LD)
Sikhism- Left (Labour)
Hindu- Left (Labour)

The most interesting to me as a catholic is the historic association of Labour and Catholicism, although this has declined considerably in recent times. Britain nowadays is a *very* secular society!
Logged
Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,983
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.03, S: -2.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2003, 09:16:04 AM »

That is interesting.  I'd like to know how most Sikhs vote over here -- the only two that I know of are Republicans - including a Senate candidate in Illinois: http://www.kathuriaforsenate.com/
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2003, 10:45:14 AM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:33:47 PM by Peter Bell »

The most interesting to me as a catholic is the historic association of Labour and Catholicism, although this has declined considerably in recent times. Britain nowadays is a *very* secular society!

It doesn't surprise me that Brits have become mostly secular. The European Union, in its new Constitution, refuses to even acknowledge that there is a GOD at all. This all must happen before Christ's Return.
Logged
English
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,187


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2003, 12:24:10 PM »

About 60% of Brits profess to having some faith or other even if they don't attend church regularly or support an organised religion. The vast majority of people here are secular though and a large minority of people are atheist. Personally I don't think that's a bad thing. Just because you don't support an organised religion doesn't mean you are bereft of morals. I am secular catholic yet in principle I still disagree with abortion for instance, simply because I feel it is wrong. Personally I find organised religion to be riddled with contradictions and hypocrisy. I've also found through experience that some of the most religious people are also the most horrid!!
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,590
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2003, 01:31:26 PM »

Baptist's can vary quite a bit, but other than that it makes sense.
Also Low Church Anglicans usually vote Labour.


Over 90% of the U.K belong to a religion.
Logged
migrendel
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,672
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2003, 06:38:33 PM »

The reason why Europe's constitution doesn't mention God is because it is pointless to unnecessarily offend people in a religiously pluralistic group of societies. As for your return of Christ and existence of God ideas, I'd like to see the proof to warrant inclusion in the European Constitution.
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2003, 06:43:00 PM »

About 60% of Brits profess to having some faith or other even if they don't attend church regularly or support an organised religion. The vast majority of people here are secular though and a large minority of people are atheist. Personally I don't think that's a bad thing. Just because you don't support an organised religion doesn't mean you are bereft of morals. I am secular catholic yet in principle I still disagree with abortion for instance, simply because I feel it is wrong. Personally I find organised religion to be riddled with contradictions and hypocrisy. I've also found through experience that some of the most religious people are also the most horrid!!
Religion is man-made; Faith was made by GOD; the GOD of The BIBLE. You don't have to go to Church to practice your Faith in GOD. However, read: Hebrews 10:25-it's enlightening. Also, Christians like Non-Christians are not perfect, yet it seems that our faults get thrown in our faces by the secular society to make themselves look better. Nobody but the Triune GOD is Perfect, noone!
Logged
migrendel
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,672
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2003, 09:41:28 PM »

As much as I admire your steadfast faith in God, I would merely like proof of His existence. One would think proof of something is a rather basic requirement for inclusion in a legal document.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,590
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2003, 09:03:48 AM »

Actually the reason why it wasn't included is because it was proposed by Catholic countries and opposed by Protestant countries...
We don't need another Thirty Years War...
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2003, 03:28:58 PM »

Actually the reason why it wasn't included is because it was proposed by Catholic countries and opposed by Protestant countries...
We don't need another Thirty Years War...
Need clarification: Did the Catholic Church want GOD mentioned and the Protestants did not?
Logged
English
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,187


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2003, 06:11:09 PM »

The US is far more religious and conservative than anywhere in Europe (apart from Vatican City!) It's not just Britain that is secular, all of Europe is.
Logged
migrendel
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,672
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2003, 09:46:56 PM »

The thing, Mr. Fresh, is that I can't, anymore so than Christopher Michael can't prove His existence. I do find it unlikely however, considering that science is accounting for more and more of what was attributed to Godly handiwork. For example, many say that the intricate way things work in the natural world is because of God. We know that everything from cells to people were once different and less efficient, so isn't it logical that millions of years of natural selection could have eventually gotten things to work the way they're supposed to? In conclusion, I'm not so presumptuous as to say definitively that God doesn't exist. That would gravely overestimate my deductive skills. But I can say that to say that God exists, absent the significant body of evidence present that suggests that science was its own handmaiden, is even more blind and unreasonable than the assertions of staunch Atheists.
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2003, 12:12:03 AM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:35:19 PM by Peter Bell »

Migrendel, have you read the GOSPELS? There's a story in one of the Fab4 that tells of Christ appearing to His Disciples after His Crucifixion and Resurrection. One of them, Thomas, would not believe unless he felt the nail hole in Christ's Hands and thrust his hand into Christ's side, which was pierced by a Roman Soldier. He said: paraphrasing: Having seeing you now believe. But Blessed are those who have not seen and yet do Believe. That's what Faith is all about. It wouldn't be "FAITH" if you could prove everything, or had to prove everything in advance. FAITH is Believing even though all other things tell you not to.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,590
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2003, 04:19:18 AM »

Basically a mention of God in the constitution was seen by the Protestant countries as an attempt by the Vatican to institutionalise itself as part of the E.U
Logged
Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,983
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.03, S: -2.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2003, 11:33:38 AM »

Somehow I don't think the existance or non-existance of God will be solved on a YaBB board about U.S. politics. Smiley

You have to admit that it is awfully difficult to go crafting a new Constitution these days.  The language used in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution is beautiful and has an incredibly powerful meaning.  The Constitution created a secular state because you could do that with the language back then.  Now, with joint help from extremists on both sides - one side that wants religion in everything and the other side that wants religion in nothing, you simply can't use such beautiful language anymore because it carries too much religious meaning rather than just refrencing a higher natural power.
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,767


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2003, 01:10:31 PM »

Since most European countries are secular it doesn't make a lot of sense to force them into being christian all in a sudden. Those who are constitutionally religious (usually catholic countries), Poland for example, did throw a fuss about it. Also, you have to remember that we have a lot of moslems in Europe, and can expect a lot more in the future (immigration, if Turkey joins the EU, etc), whereas a huge majority of people in the US are christians, a fact that isn't likely to change rapidly.
Logged
M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2003, 01:35:39 PM »

As much as I admire your steadfast faith in God, I would merely like proof of His existence. One would think proof of something is a rather basic requirement for inclusion in a legal document.

Can you give me a single solid proof of G-d?
-Frederick the Great

Yes, Your Majesty, the Jews.
-Pascal

How else do you explain the utterly impossible story of the Jewish people but divine intervention? You cannot, it is actually impossible.
Logged
migrendel
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,672
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2003, 04:13:03 PM »

You may believe, in a personal sense, whatever you want. But don't you think that you should at least acknowledge the fact that it can't be proved for the purposes of the Constitution, and that it isn't at all germane to the functions of a European government?
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2003, 10:20:16 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:36:27 PM by Peter Bell »

migrendel:
See that's the exact thing I was trying to say, you can't prove or disprove God in any way, to people who don't believe.  I think Chris' answer was perfect in saying this.  It takes faith for one to believe, and experiences to makes that faith of yours grow.  I'll pose another question in which I may get mixed results, how many times, if ever, have you attended a church ceremony?

EDIT:  People kicked me off of my computer in mid-post Smiley

Chris:
I think it's great that you are a religious person, may I ask you the same question, do you attend church weekly?

I no longer go back to the Evangelical Free Lutheran Church I was baptized, confirmed, served as Deacon for 3 years, then Trustee for one year. There's too much division in that Church. I started, just one month ago, going to a Non-Denominational Church with a guy from my University. I did a presentation in a class I had with him, and bam, he started talking to me. I knew him for 3 yrs. before, and we never talked. Before that, however, I was not attending any Church for about 2 1/2 yrs.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,260
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2003, 02:27:14 PM »

Indeed, religion is based on faith and faith alone. No one can prove that their religion is true, nor can anyone prove that it isn't. I myself fully understrand where athiests and agnostics are coming from, since I myself used to be an agnostic until about 5 years ago. However, I believe that God spoke to me and revealed His presence and that he does exist. I was (and still am) a very logical person who requires proof of something before I can believe in it. I have faith however that God exists since I feel that he spoke to me. However, I realize also that is is merely faith and that if pressed I have no actual proof of God's existence.
Logged
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
Guest
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2003, 02:40:29 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2005, 05:37:28 PM by Peter Bell »

And nor do you need proof. The Definition of Faith is: "Believing without Experiencing with the senses."
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,767


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2003, 03:01:23 PM »

Somehow I don't think the existance or non-existance of God will be solved on a YaBB board about U.S. politics. Smiley

Well put! Also, let people have their faiths!
Logged
jravnsbo
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,888


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2003, 10:24:08 AM »

--so are we supposed to talk about god, guns and gays or not? Smiley


Howard Dean 'finds' Jesus

Democrats have been trying hard in recent years to squeeze God into their politics, perceiving that Republicans have an edge on invoking the Creator to bless their policies. Democrats worry they suffer from a "God gap."

Bill Clinton and Al Gore, with their Southern Baptist backgrounds, were fluent in the language of religion, though not always in its personal application. Who can forget Easter Sunday 1996, when President Clinton emerged from church flashing a Bible for the cameras and later returning to the White House, where Monica Lewinsky got down on her knees to perform an act that did not resemble prayer?

Clinton and Gore often quoted what they said were verses of Scripture, which turned out to be incorrect and/or misapplied. And now Howard Dean will rush in where political angels have feared to tread and try to advance the theological ball down the field to see if he can score votes for his candidacy.

In an interview with the Boston Globe (Dec. 25), Dean announced that he is a "committed believer in Jesus Christ." He told writer Sarah Schweitzer that he plans to include references to Jesus and God in his speeches as he campaigns down South. That's the land of Confederate battle flags and pickup trucks Dean so recently disparaged. In the Globe interview, he said Southerners understand religious talk better than his fellow New Englanders. Yes, that "vast Unitarian wasteland of the Northeast," as Charles Colson has jokingly called it, is the latest target of Dean's regional stereotyping.

Dean is from a Congregationalist background, a liberal denomination that does not believe in ministerial authority or church hierarchy. Each Congregationalist believes he is in direct contact with God and is entitled to sort out truth for himself. Dean's wife is Jewish and his two children are being raised Jewish, which is strange at best, considering the two faiths take a distinctly different view of Jesus.

What exactly does Dean believe about Jesus, and how is it relevant to his presidential candidacy? "Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised," he told the Globe, "people who were left behind." Dean makes it sound as if He might have been a Democrat. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything," the candidate continued. "He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

Not really. If that is all Jesus was (or is), then he is just another entry in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, to be read or not, according to one's inspirational need.

C.S. Lewis brilliantly dealt with this watered-down view of Jesus and what He did in the book "Mere Christianity." Said Lewis, who thought about such things at a far deeper level than Howard Dean, "I'm trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I can't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God - or else a madman or something worse."

One hopes that the next journalist who gets a chance to ask Dean about this will inquire as to which Jesus he is talking about, if for no other reason than to gauge whether Dean is being sincere or a political opportunist who seeks to bamboozle Southern religious Democrats. That reporter might also survey Christians in New England (there are more than Dean thinks) as to whether they are as offended by his reference to their region as Southerners were to his characterization of their symbols and driving choices.

I can't wait to see how Dean panders to Californians. Fruits and nuts, anyone?

Logged
migrendel
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,672
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2003, 11:11:38 AM »

First, I'd like to say that those three Gs (God, gays, and guns), jravnsbo, have led to their fair shares of interesting discussions over the time I've been a member. While I used to be an atheist, I find agnosticism more philosophically sound at present. I do not believe that the theistic argument of proving God has been proved, nor do I think anything directly refuting His existence has come up yet. As for Dean's Congregationalism, I think it reveals a deep divide in the Christian community. Some people believe that the faithful can really communicate with God. Others follow the theological lead of Karl Barth, a Swiss Calvinist that believed that God was totally unknowable, except through His revelations, the time of which, incidentally, are of his choosing. Since the positions seem to be a dividing line of more reformed against more evangelical churches, I suppose this is one of the dividing lines of Liberal v. Conservative Christianity. I do not believe I am qualified to be an important observer of this debate, but I will say one thing. Whatever you believe, from Calvinism to Catholicism to Judaism to Islam to Buddhism to Atheism, follow it faithfully. Believe in what you believe, and you are a good way toward being a person of integrity.
Logged
jravnsbo
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,888


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2003, 11:23:29 AM »

Well i have many thoughts on Religiona dn definately believe in Jesus as the Christ.

However, I have never understood those that don't believe.  My thought was why not?  even if a Weak believer, wouldn't it make more sense to believe it God in case he is real and someday you have to face him on judgment day and you were a nonbeliever.  

as to the Gods guns and gays, it just seemed hypocrtical of Dean to say we didn't need to talk about them and then he comes out declares he needs to talk baout his faith more in the South.  Talk about the pandering politician.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.05 seconds with 11 queries.