In Theory, Would a Peaceful Islamic Caliphate Have Merit? (user search)
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  In Theory, Would a Peaceful Islamic Caliphate Have Merit? (search mode)
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Author Topic: In Theory, Would a Peaceful Islamic Caliphate Have Merit?  (Read 2361 times)
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shua
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« on: September 20, 2014, 12:47:34 AM »

There's a lot worth being nostalgic about here when compared to the present moment, but for the reasons Foucalf said it wouldn't be sustainable even if you were somehow able to achieve it. Even in Medieval times I don't believe there was a true pan-Islamic caliphate after the Umayyads of the 8th century. 
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shua
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2014, 10:54:57 AM »


What type of distinction is that?  Do think there's some version of Islam that's compatible with modernity and liberal values?

I didn't really say it was a good idea regardless, but a Wahhabi Caliphate of any kind would be guaranteed to be absolutely awful.

That's kind of a buzz word, Wahhabi.  In reality, there are no neat lines to draw between standard Suni Islam whether it's Wahhabi or Salafi or generic.  It's not like Anglican vs. Lutheran vs. 7th day Adventist. 

To risk oversimplifying, the more conservative schools of thought in Islam are more literal, committed to Islam as a total answer to everything and consumed with religion above all else.  They've basically rotten away their rational thinking abilities with their religion.  However, I don't think there is what we tend to call "moderate Islam" either.  There are people who take religion less seriously and their rationality and humanity guides them to keep religion from clouding their judgment.  There is no moderate, progressive version of Islam, there's no reform Judaism or Episcopalian equivalent in Islam.

Of course it is possible for a Muslim to take his or her religion seriously without wanting to behead those who disagree with them. How is this in question?  That doesn't even necessitate being "modern" or "progressive" or whatever those terms mean in this context.
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shua
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Posts: 25,689
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Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2014, 06:17:13 PM »


What type of distinction is that?  Do think there's some version of Islam that's compatible with modernity and liberal values?

I didn't really say it was a good idea regardless, but a Wahhabi Caliphate of any kind would be guaranteed to be absolutely awful.

That's kind of a buzz word, Wahhabi.  In reality, there are no neat lines to draw between standard Suni Islam whether it's Wahhabi or Salafi or generic.  It's not like Anglican vs. Lutheran vs. 7th day Adventist. 

To risk oversimplifying, the more conservative schools of thought in Islam are more literal, committed to Islam as a total answer to everything and consumed with religion above all else.  They've basically rotten away their rational thinking abilities with their religion.  However, I don't think there is what we tend to call "moderate Islam" either.  There are people who take religion less seriously and their rationality and humanity guides them to keep religion from clouding their judgment.  There is no moderate, progressive version of Islam, there's no reform Judaism or Episcopalian equivalent in Islam.

Of course it is possible for a Muslim to take his or her religion seriously without wanting to behead those who disagree with them. How is this in question?  That doesn't even necessitate being "modern" or "progressive" or whatever those terms mean in this context.

Not beheading random people who disagree with you is nice, but it does not mean that you embrace basic values of Western liberalism and human rights. 

Why do reforms toward greater freedom and respect for persons need to be Western to be worthwhile?
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,689
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 12:30:52 AM »

I should also point out that unless it includes Spain (and Israel) it's not a Caliphate.

Why do you say that?
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