Opinion of Bernie Sanders

[Antonio the Sixth]

HP

*facepalm*

[Antonio the Sixth]

True Leftists need to be banned from talking about foreign policy, forever. Seriously, I'd rather attend a lecture by Donald Rumsfeld* than listen to any more of their sh-t.

*I was about to say Dick Cheney, but.... no. Let's not take things too far.

[Antonio the Sixth]

True Leftists need to be banned from talking about foreign policy, forever. Seriously, I'd rather attend a lecture by Donald Rumsfeld* than listen to any more of their sh-t.

*I was about to say Dick Cheney, but.... no. Let's not take things too far.

So you think Bernie is right to vote for funding for American military adventurism in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. all the while millions of Americans suffer from the lack of basic necessities of life? I'm not sure why it makes sense for anyone on the left to support the idea that American foreign policy, which has created more problems than it has solved, is something to be heralded and maintained, at the expense of those who have nothing and will continue to have nothing so long as resources, time, and energy are wasted on putting holes in working class people in the Arab world.

Because I actually value human lives far away just the same as human lives in the West, maybe?

[Antonio the Sixth]

True Leftists need to be banned from talking about foreign policy, forever. Seriously, I'd rather attend a lecture by Donald Rumsfeld* than listen to any more of their sh-t.

*I was about to say Dick Cheney, but.... no. Let's not take things too far.

So you think Bernie is right to vote for funding for American military adventurism in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. all the while millions of Americans suffer from the lack of basic necessities of life? I'm not sure why it makes sense for anyone on the left to support the idea that American foreign policy, which has created more problems than it has solved, is something to be heralded and maintained, at the expense of those who have nothing and will continue to have nothing so long as resources, time, and energy are wasted on putting holes in working class people in the Arab world.

Because I actually value human lives far away just the same as human lives in the West, maybe?

Do you really believe that the United States government is interested in human lives in the Middle East?

I'm not sure what the hell you're even trying to suggest here, but it doesn't really matter. The US government will make a difference between a complete ethnoreligious cleansing of the Middle East or a relatively standard armed conflict, so since I'm not a horrible person I obviously wish that it does.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm not saying you're a horrible person. I'm suggesting that you might be putting just a bit too much stake in what politicians say their motives are as opposed to what they actually are. The United States government does not care about human rights. That much is evident in its alliance with reactionary regimes in Saudi Arabia and Israel and its close trading relationship with the People's Republic of China. Human rights is just the most convenient foil by which the American ruling class drums up support for conflict/regime change that will allow its members to take control of markets and resources abroad.

You don't get it. Yes, obviously there's all sorts of unholy interests factoring in every policy decision - and that's the reason why politicians won't do many things that I'd like them to do (in this specific case, the smartest thing would be to simply arm the Kurds). You always seem to found your posts on the assumption that we pragmatic leftists aren't aware of this fact. We are perfectly aware of this: the issue isn't that we are too naive to see what is rotten about the established politics, it's that we are realistic enough to realize that this is an inherent aspect of politics that we shouldn't waste our efforts trying to wipe away - but rather work with in order to try and minimize its influence while promoting the common good.

The problem, as usual, is that you think in absolutes, whereas all politics is relative. It's not good vs evil, but better vs worse. You look at US intervention in Irak and see the hypocrisy, the number of wealthy contractors who will benefit from it, and America's hope to preserve its (increasingly weakening) global hegemony. This is not an unfair assessment (although True Leftists sometimes take it to absurd proportions: no, Dubya didn't invade Irak "to take their oil", this just doesn't make the slightest bit of sense).

What I see, however, is the possibility to prevent literally hundreds of thousands of murders, rapes, and lives otherwise ruined. This is what's gonna happen if we do nothing. So tell me, is it better to pride ourselves in the purity of our principles and our refusal to deal with anything "dirty", while we watch a genocide unfold from the comfort of our homes? Or maybe acknowledge the bad things about US intervention, and still do what will effectively prevent this from happening? If your morality leads you toward the first option, I find it quite scary.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Tony, please proceed with the clapping man gif. We need it now more than ever!

Since when am I the official clapping-gif poster? I mean, I've used it a couple times, but others have too.

Also, I'd like to note that it's something like the third or fourth time that TNF doesn't respond to my rebuttal of his true leftist drivel.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I love the idea that Bernie is a radical leftist. Do the Democratic hacks on this forum even understand dialectical materialism?