The People's Party October Convention - Final comments
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  The People's Party October Convention - Final comments
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Anti Democrat Democrat Club
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« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2014, 03:47:14 PM »

ENDORSEMENT BALLOT

President and Vice President

[ ] Marokai/Antonio V (Labor)
[1] Lumine/Sjoyce (Federalist/TPP)
[ ] Poirot/TBD (Independent)
[ ] Write In:
[ ] Abstain

Northeast Governor - Sawx automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

Northeast Senator - MattVT automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

Pacific Senator - Cranberry automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

xx Senator -
[ ]  Write in:

xx Governor -
[ ] Write in:
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Donerail
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« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2014, 07:17:38 PM »

ENDORSEMENT BALLOT

President and Vice President

[2] Marokai/Antonio V (Labor)
[1] Lumine/Sjoyce (Federalist/TPP)
[3] Poirot/TBD (Independent)
[ ] Write In:
[ ] Abstain

Northeast Governor - Sawx automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

Northeast Senator - MattVT automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

Pacific Senator - Cranberry automatically endorsed
[ ] Write in:

xx Senator -
[ ]  Write in:

xx Governor -
[ ] Write in:
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2014, 02:05:25 AM »

The voting has closed and the ticket of Lumine/Sjoyce will receive the endorsement of The People's Party for President and Vice President at the upcoming election.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2014, 12:35:23 AM »

Whoops, I missed the vote.

I would like to say a brief word though. It is important that, during this tumultuous time, The People's Party leads this nation and all Party members represent themselves in a professional manner. We mustn't fall victim to the temptations of acting out or starting a war. The People demand it. Out of all the groups, it is The People who are best able to lead this great nation forward as we always have, from the cavemen days to the Renaissance in western Europe. The art! The wine!

Times are dark now, yes, but I am confident for the future of this country now that The People have a President and multiple senators in the chamber. The Era of Good Feeling isn't that far in our rearview mirror, and I see nothing but Good Feelings ahead. So let's all hold hands, march forward and work our tails off to honor The People who are watching our every move, even through the peephole in your bathroom stall.
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Lumine
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2014, 05:11:05 PM »

I sincerely thank The People's Party for its endorsement, and I look forward to working with all of you should I win the election.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2014, 08:02:48 AM »

Vice Chair Oakvale will put forward a proposed platform that represents who we as The People are.

So we will be extending our convention until Monday to cover all required business.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2014, 11:36:50 AM »

Thanks, Polnut. After considerable discussions with the Chair and several other interested members of the party, here is the proposed, revised platform. I have tried to be as concise as possible although our original desire for just ten points proved difficult to fulfil.



1. The People's Party recognises the right to private property as a fundamental human right. No society where this right is under threat can be truly free.

2. The People's Party believes that climate change is real and anthropogenic. We believe this must be addressed not through half-solutions and tokenism, but through real, substantive action by governments and citizens alike. We firmly believe in a cap-and-trade system or carbon tax to limit harmful emissions of greenhouse gases and other pollutants. In addition, we recognize that Atlasian flora and fauna are vital to the ecosystem and cultural heritage of our nation, and will work to preserve them.

3. The People's Party believes that personal liberty is the bedrock principle of Atlasian society. We believe that no government has the right to dictate the direction of its citizen's lives - we will fight for personal freedom in all walks of life, including in protecting the fundamental right of a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

4. The People's Party believes in a progressive tax structure, where those who have benefited the most give a helping hand to those who need it. But we do not believe that "taxing the rich" is an economic panacea. That is a mantra, not a policy. A strong economy that provides opportunity for all will be built and maintained not through the blind recitation of outdated dogmas but through cooperation, compromise, understanding and a realistic perspective on the challenges we face.

Furthermore, a truly fair and progressive tax structure must not be used as a tool to persecute or attack those fortunate enough to achieve wealth and success in our economy. Such policies turn citizen against citizen, breed discord and unrest, and weaken our nation. We believe that Atlasia must be a society for all the people, not for select interest groups. To this end, it is The People's Party's belief that an income tax should not exceed more than 50% of an individual's income.

5. The People's Party recognises that investor confidence in our nation has often been shaken by ideologically-motivated decisions on economic matters. The People recognise a portion of our country derives their income from capital gains and dividends. For the social well being of The People, The Party favors a flat 15% capital gains tax on low and middle income Atlasians, whereas the top 3% earners should pay 20%.

6. The People's Party recognises the hardships too many employees experience in their everyday lives. This Party will fight a policy of honesty and openness between both employee and employer. While we hold employment policies, including “at will” laws a regional issue, we encourage regional governments to work to change policies like these -they are archaic and are a tremendous disservice to the employee. They discourage the principles of honesty, openness and job security that should be the foundation of of a healthy, vibrant and modern economy.

7.  The People recognize that business, large and small, is the backbone of this country. Therefore, we favor a low corporate tax to encourage domestic job creation, keeping The People at work in their home country, not boosting employment numbers overseas. The People also recognize the role certainty plays in the economy. We must be in touch with our business community, large and small, by giving employers certainty when it comes to taxes and other issues that lead to layoffs and a deterioration of investor confidence. Furthermore, we recognize that so long as public services are provided transparently, equitably, and efficiently, it does not matter whether the public or private sector provides them, and we oppose attempts to unilaterally nationalise, or privatise, such services on mere ideological grounds. The People believe that the default assumption should be that economic activity should be handled by the private sector, but that government must not hesitate to intervene when the market fails the people.

8. The People are realists. We recognize that there is evil in this world, and there are groups of people whose basic interests and values conflict with our own. But dealing with this evil does not always begin with bombs and bullets. Diplomacy must be our first line of defense, and we must work to keep the lines of communication open with both our enemies and allies. The People recognize Atlasia’s position in the world. We must lead by example. However, if diplomacy does fail, and a nation openly defies the international community, The People shall not shy away from using force, for we believe that the nations with the most power are those with the most responsibility.

9. The People believe that a strong national defense is essential not just for our own security but for that of those peoples throughout the world who rely on the most powerful nations for support and security. The military has been gutted for years by isolationists and ideologues. We recognise that, at one stage, the defense budget was undoubtedly bloated and inefficient, but we believe that the zeal for cutting our defense capabilities has gone too far. We support an increase in the military budget and rolling back the extremist policies by the far-left and far-right that have crippled our military and diplomatic standing.

10. The People believe that healthy and thriving regions are the lifeblood of Atlasia. We oppose attempts to impose regional consolidation without the consent of the majority of citizens through political trickery and backdoor tactics. We believe that devolution of power to the regions should be concrete and intellectually justified - we oppose token devolution such as local administration of Senate elections, which only serves to add an unnecessary layer of government bureaucracy to our election process. We support the repeal and replacement of the 17th Amendment - an amendment should be ratified or rejected once, nationally, not voted on indefinitely by a single region until the desired result is achieved.

11. The People believe that we have been too lenient for too long on those who would usurp the law and threaten the stability of our nation. We favour tougher penalties for crimes against Atlasia, giving the power to the courts to sentence offenders for a ban on voting or holding office for up to a year. Similarly, we believe that deregistration must have serious consequences, and support increasing the time before a deregistered voter can re-register to a year.

12. The People's Party is an open and democratic party, and prides itself on its culture of open debate among its membership. The People believe that open debate and dialogue makes a party stronger, not weaker, and that attempts to stifle dissent or disagreement and impose top-down control are antithetical to a healthy party and the core values of The People.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2014, 11:49:57 AM »

I want to thank you all for the hard work on The People's Platform. I encourage all members to raise any issues they have with it before we bring it to a final vote. The Party is, after all, The Party of The People and Their voice.
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Sec. of State Superique
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« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2014, 05:59:37 PM »

I whish I've been more participative in the whole process and I'm sorry for that, but my real life is not being easy. I would like to share my thoughts in the platform later. Moreover, I would like to apologize for not showing my support for Lumine during the vote :/
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Simfan34
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« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2014, 06:14:21 PM »

Should I have the autonomy to use my arm to stab someone in the neck?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2014, 11:23:14 AM »

I'm fine removing a set rate because there may come a point where it needs to be high, but only under specific circumstances we really can't memorialize in a party platform. I guess the point of that plank is, most, if not all of us do not favor a system where the wealthy are taxed at 100% of their income because most economists would agree that rates that high would just destroy growth and encourage innovators to go elsewhere.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2014, 01:24:28 PM »

There is a long economic debate to be had about the effectiveness of various tax rates, and that is one quite worth having, but I think the important thing, beyond any sort of economic reasoning, is the moral principle that a person is entitled to, at the bare minimum, a majority of what they have earned, that it is unconscionable for the  government to say, in normal times, that they possess the authority to claim an absolute majority of a citizen's income.

Аverroës is correct in noting there are times of crisis- namely wars, or catastrophic natural disasters- where the compelling interest of the integrity and survival of the nation, of The People, might give the government such a moral authority, and I think we can make exceptions for that. But, by definition, an effective (not marginal) total (including state and local) tax rate over 50%, is confiscatory.

I would prefer a wording that is less rigid, something more along the lines of "We believe that individuals, and not the government, are entitled to the majority of their income, only in times of great national crisis does the survival of The People preponderate this principle."

(Not sure about the italicised, is sounds rather... clunky. And my concerns about the bodily autonomy part still stands, could we settle for something less... absolutist? My pro-life posturing aside, the wording implies that our position is along the lines of this:

The right to choose should be allowed at any stage of pregnancy, without any questions asked.

TNF presumably believes in total reproductive autonomy.

Perhaps that is what you all believe, but if not it should probably be tempered at least to some degree. It's so broad. Indeed I think Section 3 in general needs a closer look.

The rest, however, is fantastic.
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Sec. of State Superique
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« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2014, 05:28:18 PM »

Should I have the autonomy to use my arm to stab someone in the neck?

What? :/
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2014, 08:42:10 PM »

This all looks good to me, with one exception.  I want to thank Chairman Polnut, Vice-Chairman Oakvale, and everyone else who helped draft this fine document for all of their hard work.  My one concern is that a year may be a bit too long for de-registration to remain in effect.  Sometimes folks simply need a break and I don't know that they should be punished so harshly for that.  However, I think a year-long de-registration is definitely appropriate for anyone who de-registers while holding an elected or appointed office.
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Flake
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« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2014, 09:04:22 PM »

I agree with X, we should keep the six month deregistration policy.
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sentinel
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« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2014, 09:33:59 PM »

I agree w/ Averroes on the income tax.

I think the 6-month deregistration thing is too long/too far.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2014, 09:54:41 PM »

The issue on income tax is that basic idea that someone should ideally not have more than 50% of their income taken by income taxes. So, extrapolated, that suggests an ideal income tax of more than 50%.

Because, while I agree with Senator Nix and other that putting a specific number on the tax rate is problematic... being too vague is also problematic.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2014, 10:09:06 PM »

Maybe make it to say that while ideally, we don't believe anyone should pay more than half of their income to taxes, we recognize things come up that may cause that to happen...?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2014, 10:12:10 PM »

Over the next 24 hours, we will need to get any final platform discussions up for votes. So we can actually get this thing wound up by Monday.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2014, 10:01:59 AM »

I have to congratulate everyone that has been involved in the crafting of this platform! It is truly a great work, well-drafted, very readable and well-structured and greatly thoughtful. I can only endorse this platform, just I would too have a few points of discontent:

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I have the belief that if there is one position, clause or whatever of whichever document that has a little more significance than the other titles, than this is the first one, regardless of text. As such, I am not quite content with us putting property rights at the first place. I would rather see it replaced with a clause on personal liberty of some sort, but that's just my humble opinion.

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I guess evil is a strong word. What says that we are always good and whoever disagrees with us is always bad and wrong and evil. Probably replace evil with "forces that work against us" or "against our values"; or better, just cancel the "evil" part, and let stand just the second part of the sentence.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2014, 12:42:56 AM »

I understand the President's concerns, but I'm personally very comfortable with the language. There is evil in the world, just not of the biblical kind.

In relation to the issue around abortion, we are not advocating for the extreme position of Senator TNF. I think it is clear what our platform is reflecting.

On the issue of taxation - I note what Senator Nix is advocating and understand it.

I will propose some new wording that reflects the long-standing principle of the People, without tying too rigidly.

I am officially calling for final issues with the platform to be communicated here as soon as possible. I intend to put this platform to a final vote within the next 24 hours.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2014, 11:29:44 AM »

I understand the President's concerns, but I'm personally very comfortable with the language. There is evil in the world, just not of the biblical kind.

Yet still, who are we it determine what is evil and what is good?
(I guess this is taking a bit of a too philosophical turn, so forget my objections) 
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Donerail
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« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2014, 11:41:22 AM »

I understand the President's concerns, but I'm personally very comfortable with the language. There is evil in the world, just not of the biblical kind.

Yet still, who are we it determine what is evil and what is good?
(I guess this is taking a bit of a too philosophical turn, so forget my objections) 

I'd assume there are certain basic moral and ethical principles that we can use to pretty clearly determine who is evil, based on our abolition of the slave trade, this resolution, the Nuremberg Charter, the United Nations Charter, the Rome Statute, and the World Summit Outcome Document. There are obviously going to be some grey cases, but we can point to places like Darfur, Rwanda, and Iraq and say that those are places where evil happened.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2014, 11:44:03 AM »

Okay, thank you! I guess one could argue this is "evil", so let's keep that wording.

I guess that would be everything from me then.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2014, 07:01:53 PM »


1. The People's Party recognises the right to private property as a fundamental human right. No society where this right is under threat can be truly free.

2. The People's Party believes that climate change is real and anthropogenic. We believe this must be addressed not through half-solutions and tokenism, but through real, substantive action by governments and citizens alike. We firmly believe in a cap-and-trade system or carbon tax to limit harmful emissions of greenhouse gases and other pollutants. In addition, we recognize that Atlasian flora and fauna are vital to the ecosystem and cultural heritage of our nation, and will work to preserve them.

3. The People's Party believes that personal liberty is the bedrock principle of Atlasian society. We believe that no government has the right to dictate the direction of its citizen's lives - we will fight for personal freedom in all walks of life, including in protecting the fundamental right of a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

4. The People's Party believes in a progressive tax structure, where those who have benefited the most give a helping hand to those who need it. But we do not believe that "taxing the rich" is an economic panacea. That is a mantra, not a policy. A strong economy that provides opportunity for all will be built and maintained not through the blind recitation of outdated dogmas but through cooperation, compromise, understanding and a realistic perspective on the challenges we face.

Furthermore, a truly fair and progressive tax structure must not be used as a tool to persecute or attack those fortunate enough to achieve wealth and success in our economy. Such policies turn citizen against citizen, breed discord and unrest, and weaken our nation. We believe that Atlasia must be a society for all the people, not for select interest groups. To this end, it is The People's Party's belief that an income tax should not exceed more than 50% of an individual's income. no individual should expect that more than half of their income should be taken as income taxation.

5. The People's Party recognises that investor confidence in our nation has often been shaken by ideologically-motivated decisions on economic matters. The People recognise a portion of our country derives their income from capital gains and dividends. For the social well being of The People, The Party favors a flat 15% capital gains tax on low and middle income Atlasians, whereas the top 3% earners should pay 20%.

6. The People's Party recognises the hardships too many employees experience in their everyday lives. This Party will fight a policy of honesty and openness between both employee and employer. While we hold employment policies, including “at will” laws a regional issue, we encourage regional governments to work to change policies like these -they are archaic and are a tremendous disservice to the employee. They discourage the principles of honesty, openness and job security that should be the foundation of of a healthy, vibrant and modern economy.

7.  The People recognize that business, large and small, is the backbone of this country. Therefore, we favor a low corporate tax to encourage domestic job creation, keeping The People at work in their home country, not boosting employment numbers overseas. The People also recognize the role certainty plays in the economy. We must be in touch with our business community, large and small, by giving employers certainty when it comes to taxes and other issues that lead to layoffs and a deterioration of investor confidence. Furthermore, we recognize that so long as public services are provided transparently, equitably, and efficiently, it does not matter whether the public or private sector provides them, and we oppose attempts to unilaterally nationalise, or privatise, such services on mere ideological grounds. The People believe that the default assumption should be that economic activity should be handled by the private sector, but that government must not hesitate to intervene when the market fails the people.

8. The People are realists. We recognize that there is evil in this world, and there are groups of people whose basic interests and values conflict with our own. But dealing with this evil does not always begin with bombs and bullets. Diplomacy must be our first line of defense, and we must work to keep the lines of communication open with both our enemies and allies. The People recognize Atlasia’s position in the world. We must lead by example. However, if diplomacy does fail, and a nation openly defies the international community, The People shall not shy away from using force, for we believe that the nations with the most power are those with the most responsibility.

9. The People believe that a strong national defense is essential not just for our own security but for that of those peoples throughout the world who rely on the most powerful nations for support and security. The military has been gutted for years by isolationists and ideologues. We recognise that, at one stage, the defense budget was undoubtedly bloated and inefficient, but we believe that the zeal for cutting our defense capabilities has gone too far. We support an increase in the military budget and rolling back the extremist policies by the far-left and far-right that have crippled our military and diplomatic standing. The People believe that the Atlasia does not need the largest or the smallest military, but the smartest and most efficient.

10. The People believe that healthy and thriving regions are the lifeblood of Atlasia. We oppose attempts to impose regional consolidation without the consent of the majority of citizens through political trickery and backdoor tactics. We believe that devolution of power to the regions should be concrete and intellectually justified - we oppose token devolution such as local administration of Senate elections, which only serves to add an unnecessary layer of government bureaucracy to our election process. We support the repeal and replacement of the 17th Amendment - an amendment should be ratified or rejected once, nationally, not voted on indefinitely by a single region until the desired result is achieved.

11. The People believe that we have been too lenient for too long on those who would usurp the law and threaten the stability of our nation. We favour tougher penalties for crimes against Atlasia, giving the power to the courts to sentence offenders for a ban on voting or holding office for up to a year. Similarly, we believe that deregistration must have serious consequences, and support increasing the time before a deregistered voter can re-register to a year.

12. The People's Party is an open and democratic party, and prides itself on its culture of open debate among its membership. The People believe that open debate and dialogue makes a party stronger, not weaker, and that attempts to stifle dissent or disagreement and impose top-down control are antithetical to a healthy party and the core values of The People.

After taking on board comments here and those sent to me privately, I have attempted to address a couple in this version.

In item 4, I have noted that long-standing principle of the People, going back to our founding, that tax rates shouldn't be punitive. It notes the importance of progressive taxation, those with the most, should pay the most. While it has removed the set amount, it does reflect the aspiration that we have held to for a long time.

Item 9 has an addition that has come up through some discussions with some party members. It notes that the ideological desire to cut the defense budget is an understandable goal, but one that has consequences and one we believe has gone too far. I have added a sentence which reflects something we in this party believe in. Let's stop wasting time arguing about specifics of the size of the military, and focus on what we need in order to guarantee our safety and do it in the smartest and most efficient way possible. Not everything needs to be ideological, some things, should be based on best-evidence and best-practice.

I propose this Platform to the Convention for its approval.

Please mark an [X] in the box of your choice.

[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain

24 hours from the posting of this message.
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