Solving Long Term Unemployment Act (Debating)
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  Solving Long Term Unemployment Act (Debating)
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Author Topic: Solving Long Term Unemployment Act (Debating)  (Read 2545 times)
TNF
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« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2014, 06:02:56 AM »

As far as I can tell, the kinds of jobs that are growing are ones that you don't necessarily need a college degree for. Manual labor directly employed in shipping and warehousing is the fastest growing occupation (IIRC) and that honestly doesn't require any kind of specific training whatsoever. IRL this is a low-paid, non-union sector, but I would assume (with stronger unions and labor protections) that this is not the case in Atlasia. We could modify this bill so that the unemployed are put directly to work where needed, as part of a tripartite council of the state, labor, and business.

Personally I would prefer that the 'business' component of that trifecta is limited to cooperatives. This would encourage the growth of cooperatives, a process that we have already started by the TNF-Yankee Cooperative Development Act. We could offer tax credits to coops looking to expand production and take on the unemployed, in effect subsidizing the growth of the democratic sector of our economy and striking a blow at unemployment at the same time. It's a win-win in my book.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 05:42:25 PM »

As far as I can tell, the kinds of jobs that are growing are ones that you don't necessarily need a college degree for. Manual labor directly employed in shipping and warehousing is the fastest growing occupation (IIRC) and that honestly doesn't require any kind of specific training whatsoever. IRL this is a low-paid, non-union sector, but I would assume (with stronger unions and labor protections) that this is not the case in Atlasia. We could modify this bill so that the unemployed are put directly to work where needed, as part of a tripartite council of the state, labor, and business.

You need certificates and licensing though and that can cost money. But yeah, shipping and storage rises and falls with the general economy, if the economy is coming back from a deep recession, and retail and whole sale trade is thus growing by substantial amounts, a lot of labor would be needed in that field obviously. That does not make it a strong sector over the long term, more or less a leading sector.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 06:13:13 PM »

To an extent, TNF is correct. Long-term unemployed are overwhelmingly without university education. The answer is not to assume they need one, or want one. A lot of it comes down to re-training and up-skilling. That includes re-certification for tradespeople.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 01:04:45 PM »

To an extent, TNF is correct. Long-term unemployed are overwhelmingly without university education. The answer is not to assume they need one, or want one. A lot of it comes down to re-training and up-skilling. That includes re-certification for tradespeople.

If you would like to write the amendment for that, I'd accept it and then I'll write a bill abolishing tuition fees separately. I think maybe that's the best way to go now.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2014, 05:28:35 PM »

I do agree with the need for recertification and such, but that does cost money. I worry about this abolishing tuition fees would effect institutions of learning, particularly community colleges where most of this takes place. How will they be effected as we need to avoid them closing like several hospitals have in real life from lack of sufficient reimbursement.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2014, 08:27:05 PM »

We need training for trade jobs, not college education. If we flood the market with college educated people, it will make it no easier than it is right now because everyone will have a degree, which will dilute other college graduates. Evidence shows that jobs that do not require college degrees are growing, and yes, we need to support those kinds of jobs, so lets do it! Let's get people trained for manufacturing jobs, etc.

Sorry for butting in, btw, sometimes I just can't help myself.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2014, 10:12:21 PM »

No one has proposed an amendment for me, yet. I don't exactly know how you guys want to handle it, so please do so. I'd like not to see this defeated over something that trivial.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2014, 10:43:24 PM »

No one has proposed an amendment for me, yet. I don't exactly know how you guys want to handle it, so please do so. I'd like not to see this defeated over something that trivial.

It's not my job anymore to do anything, I'm just going to eat my fast food and smile, but yes, I do hope someone introduces an amendment because this can be salvaged.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2014, 10:51:15 PM »

No one has proposed an amendment for me, yet. I don't exactly know how you guys want to handle it, so please do so. I'd like not to see this defeated over something that trivial.

It's not my job anymore to do anything, I'm just going to eat my fast food and smile, but yes, I do hope someone introduces an amendment because this can be salvaged.

Well, you could always send it to me and I'd intro it myself. The point I was making is other Senators have said the same thing and I'd like to see what you guys had in mind at least.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2014, 02:05:48 AM »

I'm thinking about $5,000 per year for 3 years, no interest loans for people who are long-term unemployed to attend and accredited institution. Or an $3000 no interest loan for people who need re-certification.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2014, 05:59:18 PM »

Those numbers seem reasonable.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2014, 06:46:13 PM »

WEll?
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Lumine
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2014, 08:55:48 PM »

If there are no amendments as of tomorrow, I believe I will start a final vote.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2014, 09:30:26 PM »

I will propose an amendment shortly
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2014, 08:32:58 PM »
« Edited: October 12, 2014, 06:25:22 PM by Senator Polnut »

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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2014, 03:43:36 PM »

I've got a proposed bill that will abolish tuition fees for Atlasian students nationwide. I assume these loans can be used for other expenses which aren't covered in the bill I have proposed. This also helps with re-certifications.

Amendment is friendly.
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Lumine
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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2014, 03:58:27 PM »

Senators have 24 hours to object to the amendment.
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TNF
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2014, 04:02:49 AM »

I'm preparing an amendment for this as well.
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Lumine
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« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2014, 01:51:55 PM »

The amendment has been adopted.
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TNF
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« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2014, 10:33:11 AM »

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2014, 06:05:28 PM »

Could Senator TNF please provide a definition of 'cooperative enterprises'?
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2014, 11:30:31 PM »

I'm not going to let this bill only apply to cooperatives, because there simply aren't enough of them for this bill to put a dent in the problem. If you want to add them in tandem, that's fine. If not, then for this reason, then the amendment is unfriendly.
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TNF
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« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2014, 11:50:30 AM »

Could Senator TNF please provide a definition of 'cooperative enterprises'?

As defined in the Cooperative Development Act of 2014:

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I'm not going to let this bill only apply to cooperatives, because there simply aren't enough of them for this bill to put a dent in the problem. If you want to add them in tandem, that's fine. If not, then for this reason, then the amendment is unfriendly.

...That's the point. Limiting aid to cooperatives would encourage the formation of more of them.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2014, 01:55:57 PM »

Could Senator TNF please provide a definition of 'cooperative enterprises'?

As defined in the Cooperative Development Act of 2014:

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I'm not going to let this bill only apply to cooperatives, because there simply aren't enough of them for this bill to put a dent in the problem. If you want to add them in tandem, that's fine. If not, then for this reason, then the amendment is unfriendly.

...That's the point. Limiting aid to cooperatives would encourage the formation of more of them.

I'm fine with adding cooperatives to the bill, but I'm not limiting the bill to only them. Unfriendly, as I said, which is a shame.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2014, 05:47:13 PM »

I don't think this would in any way boost cooperatives, but would limit the opportunities provided through other businesses.

I won't support the amendment.
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