Ending Financial Havens for Islamic State (Debating)

[TNF]

Nay

[Lumine]

Aye.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Aye,

I support a withdrawal yet we need to do so in a planned and judicious fashion as opposed to a haphazard and chaotic one.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE

The tone of this debate has gone beyond the point of reasonable.

[Deus Naturae]

AYE

The tone of this debate has gone beyond the point of reasonable.

You need to stop trying to paint everyone who disagrees with you as some sort of extremist or ideological zealot. It's getting tiresome. Especially considering that you, a self-proclaimed realist, still have yet to answer my question and give a realistic situation in which we might have to delay the removal of forces.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think you're missing what my concerns of the tone are, I'm not accusing you or anyone else of zealotry. Suggestions that this is designed to support a particular candidate or that I have no desire for this to be seen through is what is worrisome. If you want to vote against it because you feel we can and should leave immediately, that's fine - but since my reputation is being targeted in a baseless way, I will reject that.

There are a number of possibilities, there are genuine social shifts in the under-current of Saudi society. Most are positive in the long-term, but could have negative short-medium-term consequences. We do have a number of Atlasian interests and nationals in the Kingdom. We also use it as a base for the region. Now, we do have others, and we closed others, a number under my presidency (that I instigated) that we can shift the focus and our presence to, but the process does take time.

There are also basic issues of contingency planning - there are things that could happen over the next six months, year etc that we cannot expect. The phrase is not, repeat not, word play to enable this to be reversed for base reasons, I don't see why it's so unacceptable to say here "here's a timeline for us to leave, but let's put in some contingencies to ensure it's done responsibly".

[TNF]

What "interests" do we have in Saudi Arabia? I understand that ExxonMobil might have "interests" in Saudi Arabia, but I fail to see why that should stop us from bringing our troops home as soon as possible.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

What "interests" do we have in Saudi Arabia? I understand that ExxonMobil might have "interests" in Saudi Arabia, but I fail to see why that should stop us from bringing our troops home as soon as possible.

They're still an Atlasian company that employs multiple Atlasian nationals. There are also a number of financial institutions, international law firms, research organisations, food companies... etc. I'm aware this isn't necessarily a list of your favourite groups - but they are Atlasian organisations, who pay (too little) tax in Atlasia and employ many Atlasians here and there.

Would you accept a situation that has the Senate vote again in a few months time to confirm? Let's say - remove the sentence you're so concerned about - and replace it with, ' the Atlasian Senate to vote by no later than 1 February 2015 to confirm the withdrawal to commence no later than 30 June 2015 and be concluded by no later 30 June 2016" That means the withdrawal could start as soon as the logistics permit (which HAS to be considered, this can't happen over night). I'm not at all dogmatic about staying in Saudi... I just want it done correctly and responsibly.

[Cassius]

Nay.

Because we should not be withdrawing from Saudi Arabia at all.

[bore]

Aye

[Deus Naturae]

They're still an Atlasian company that employs multiple Atlasian nationals. There are also a number of financial institutions, international law firms, research organisations, food companies... etc. I'm aware this isn't necessarily a list of your favourite groups - but they are Atlasian organisations, who pay (too little) tax in Atlasia and employ many Atlasians here and there.

What's the relevance of all that here? How do these companies benefit from the presence of Atlasian troops in Saudi Arabia?

[TNF]

If those companies set up shop in Saudi Arabia, they do so at their own risk. I frankly could care less if something happens to them in the event of some kind of uprising, personally. They knew the risk going in. Not our job to bail them out.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Senator TNF has made his position clear on this. A large reason for the presence of companies outside of the standard energy game is the security of having Atlasia forces in the Kingdom and what that does in relation to our relationship with the Government. While I understand why Senator TNF has no concern for the companies in Saudi, no concern for the well-being of the Atlasian employed there? As I said, I'm not in any way dogmatic about remaining in Saudi Arabia, I've outlined a pathway to withdrawal, which contains pretty standard clauses about withdrawal, with consideration for conditions on the ground. Again... not a word-game, but standard clauses in these types of situations.

If this amendment fails - I don't want this element to continue to knee-cap the elements that deal specifically with starving IS.

In good faith with Senators Deus and TNF who feel so strongly about this issue - I'm prepared to offer a separate Bill that deals specifically with this issue.

[Dr. Cynic]

Aye

[Deus Naturae]

How many Atlasian are employed in Saudi Arabia? The odds of some sort of violent uprising are incredibly low to begin with...and the number of Atlasians who would become unemployed because of such a hypothetical uprising is probably similarly miniscule.

Besides, as Sen. TNF said, it isn't the government's job to cover every risk that comes with foreign ventures. Should we ensure every foreign investment made by Atlasian citizens? Should we provide security guards to every Atlasian who goes on a foreign vacation? Sorry but the risks of an uprising actually happening in SA are so low that there is no reason we should be spending money to hypothetically prevent such a frivolous hypothetical from befalling a few companies. Atlasian oil companies have already contracted with private security providers for their own protection in volatile Middle Eastern regions. Regardless of what you think about them, it's clear they are in no need of special protection.

[Lumine]

The amendment has passed.

Aye (5) PPT Lumine, Senator JCL, Senator Polnut, Senator Cynic and Senator Bore.
Nay (4) Senator Deus, Senator TNF, Senator Nix and Senator Cassius.
Abstained (0)

Not Voting (1) Senator Yankee.

[bore]

That's an utterly bizarre vote

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

That's an utterly bizarre vote

Yes and no

I motion for a final vote so we can get this thing moving and stop wasting time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye FTR

[Lumine]

Senators, a final vote has started on this, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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[bore]

Aye

[Deus Naturae]

Aye

[TNF]

Aye

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Aye