Which man was the more skilled politician?

[memphis]

Reagan by a mile. He passed numerous pieces of landmark conservative legislation even as the opposition party held the House for his entire presidency, won re-election with 49 states even after leading the nation into a nasty recession and then getting hundreds of Marines blown up, and then not only paid almost no political price for overseeing Iran Contra, easily the gravest presidential scandal in American history, somehow positioned himself into godlike status within the Republican Party. Clinton talked a good game, and I'll give him credit for that, but, at the end of the day, Reagan was about a million times more effective at doing whatever the Inks he wanted to.

[tpfkaw]

Iran Contra, easily the gravest presidential scandal in American history

No, the gravest presidential scandal in American history is the intentional and premeditated delivery of half of Europe to Stalin and all of China to "so-called Communist" and "agrarian reformer" Mao. A scandal that Truman was, thankfully, unable to weather, and for which he rightfully received the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a president.

I do have to hand it to the Left for completely erasing the FDR/Truman administration's intentional delivery of a billion people into the hands of genocidal maniacs from official history (although it all remains in the public record), while directing our attention to the real scandal: as many as several dozen especially enthusiastic members of the Josef Stalin Fan Club, almost all provably (2) NKVD treasonists, suffered temporary minor career setbacks as a result of the overwhelming public outrage.* Tens of millions of corpses - nothing to see here.

*The real scandal is, cleverly, always referenced without mentioning the context. In the early 1950s, America was, for mysterious reasons difficult to divine, overcome with hysteria! Probably because they were so sexist and racist back then.

The CIA funding some rather minor operations against the Nicaraguan branch of the Josef Stalin Fan Club doesn't really compare in terms of being morally outrageous. (What do you think the CIA does, anyway? Get real).

[memphis]

Eastern Europe was never ours to give away. Unless you are suggesting that after the defeat of Japan, we should have nuked Moscow and effectively take the entire world.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Eastern Europe was never ours to give away. Unless you are suggesting that after the defeat of Japan, we should have nuked Moscow and effectively take the entire world.

Actually, the U.S. lacked a potential to nuke much after WWII, certainly not to extend of knocking out the USSR from the game. Truman was in no better position to expell Stalin from Eastern Europe, than Uncle Joe to expell the U.S. from the western half.

[Chilltown]

Truman "lost" China? Now that is an old one.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Iran Contra, easily the gravest presidential scandal in American history

No, the gravest presidential scandal in American history is the intentional and premeditated delivery of half of Europe to Stalin and all of China to "so-called Communist" and "agrarian reformer" Mao. A scandal that Truman was, thankfully, unable to weather, and for which he rightfully received the lowest approval rating ever recorded for a president.

I do have to hand it to the Left for completely erasing the FDR/Truman administration's intentional delivery of a billion people into the hands of genocidal maniacs from official history (although it all remains in the public record), while directing our attention to the real scandal: as many as several dozen especially enthusiastic members of the Josef Stalin Fan Club, almost all provably (2) NKVD treasonists, suffered temporary minor career setbacks as a result of the overwhelming public outrage.* Tens of millions of corpses - nothing to see here.

*The real scandal is, cleverly, always referenced without mentioning the context. In the early 1950s, America was, for mysterious reasons difficult to divine, overcome with hysteria! Probably because they were so sexist and racist back then.

The CIA funding some rather minor operations against the Nicaraguan branch of the Josef Stalin Fan Club doesn't really compare in terms of being morally outrageous. (What do you think the CIA does, anyway? Get real).

[Bacon King]

Iran Contra, easily the gravest presidential scandal in American history

No, the gravest presidential scandal in American history is the intentional and premeditated delivery of half of Europe to Stalin and all of China to "so-called Communist" and "agrarian reformer" Mao.

[citation needed]

Okay, I'll bite. What evidence do you have to suggest:

1A. the Soviet Union's assumption of dominion over Eastern Europe after WW2 was primarily the result of specific action(s) taken by the US President?
1B. the above action(s) had a specific and intentional goal of accomplishing this outcome?
1C. this outcome was deliberately sought in advance by the US President?

2A. the Communist victory in the Chinese Civil War was primarily the result of specific action(s) taken by the US President?
2B. the above action(s) had a specific and intentional goal of accomplishing this outcome?
2C. this outcome was deliberately sought by the US President?

[Beet]

The Roosevelt-Truman administration "lost" China alright... for Japan.

[RR1997]

Reagan actually changed the direction the country was headed.
Clinton licked his finger and stuck it up in the air to decide his current views.

Reagan, he didn't get impeached and is the patron saint of his party.

Although Bill was also a very skilled politician as well.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I get the impression that Reagan was more of a True Believer/ideologue who carefully constructed and manipulated his public persona while Clinton just instinctually did things based on the polls, more or less.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Clinton had a far better natural political instinct. Reagan was very good at taking direction and delivering.

[Gustaf]

Iran Contra, easily the gravest presidential scandal in American history

No, the gravest presidential scandal in American history is the intentional and premeditated delivery of half of Europe to Stalin and all of China to "so-called Communist" and "agrarian reformer" Mao.

[citation needed]

Okay, I'll bite. What evidence do you have to suggest:

1A. the Soviet Union's assumption of dominion over Eastern Europe after WW2 was primarily the result of specific action(s) taken by the US President?
1B. the above action(s) had a specific and intentional goal of accomplishing this outcome?
1C. this outcome was deliberately sought in advance by the US President?

2A. the Communist victory in the Chinese Civil War was primarily the result of specific action(s) taken by the US President?
2B. the above action(s) had a specific and intentional goal of accomplishing this outcome?
2C. this outcome was deliberately sought by the US President?

I do think one can argue that there was a naive approach to the USSR from the US administration during the last stages of WW2 where they didn't really jockey for as good a position as possible. I've read (though I'm no expert) that it wasn't really until the Berlin blockade and the Prague coup that the US properly realized that there was a Cold War going on.

It's obviously laughable that they could have prevented a USSR takeover of all of Eastern Europe but maybe they could have saved more than they did.