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Author Topic: Senate Protest and Analysis Thread  (Read 199143 times)
R2D2
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« Reply #1750 on: February 16, 2012, 06:22:58 am »
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This is what's wrong with this game. Maybe shua doesn't have the time that you or Badger or Purple State had. That's okay. I think shua's a great GM and he's a great person. We're becoming so much like the United States in the sense that we just go off on these ideologically-fueled rants with bias hid behind rhetoric. It's ridiculous. We vote for people based on ideology, we say we disapprove of them and then don't tell them why when they ask, we exile them from politics and then we rinse and repeat. I just can't comprehend this. At all.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #1751 on: February 16, 2012, 09:56:07 am »
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This is what's wrong with this game. Maybe shua doesn't have the time that you or Badger or Purple State had. That's okay. I think shua's a great GM and he's a great person.

What's been wrong with this game at several instances in the last couple of years has been everyone's tendency to just sort of shuffle someone's shortcomings under the rug because of what party they belong to, or what friends they have in Atlasia. In many ways we have become too personal, and in many ways we have become too partisan, but we certainly haven't been very ideological, even now.

Shua is a delightful person personally, I'm sure. Napoleon is friendly with him, and also wants to maintain a spectrum of support right to left. (It's what the Liberal Party is all about, in general.) But we can't suddenly stop critically evaluating people just because of how nice they are, in the same way that we can't continue denying people their accomplishments because of what clique they've belonged to.

Shua is a good GM in the absence of all other options. On any sort of objective level he has been mediocre. This is not an attack, it is simply a reality. A conclusion based on what is empirical. We can't be so caught up in trying to be nice that we make excuses for people or stop doing good jobs. Just because I am the one saying something, doesn't mean it's wrong. The actions (or lack thereof) speak for themselves.

(Note that I'm not saying it's awful and wrong and Shua is a nasty terrible person for not doing his job. If he's not able to, he's just not able to. If he doesn't have the time, he doesn't have the time. But if someone doesn't have that time, they shouldn't have the job that requires that time.)
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« Reply #1752 on: February 16, 2012, 05:25:17 pm »
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one budget update. (The latter is supposed to be done monthly.)

I decided I wanted to get the budget complete and on the right track the first time I posted it.   I'm not aware of any laws I broke by not putting one out monthly.

Quote
and Badger took interest in more individual concerns people had than Shua.
and the individual concerns I haven't addressed are . . . ?

Quote
Purple State took more interest than even I did in individual legislative discussions.
right, because the Senate is so interested in what I have to say! 
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" But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
- Justice Robert Jackson WV SBE v Barnette
Napoleon
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« Reply #1753 on: February 16, 2012, 05:31:25 pm »
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This is what's wrong with this game. Maybe shua doesn't have the time that you or Badger or Purple State had. That's okay. I think shua's a great GM and he's a great person. We're becoming so much like the United States in the sense that we just go off on these ideologically-fueled rants with bias hid behind rhetoric. It's ridiculous. We vote for people based on ideology, we say we disapprove of them and then don't tell them why when they ask, we exile them from politics and then we rinse and repeat. I just can't comprehend this. At all.

Amen.
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Please Senators, don't let the Russians, a folk of alcoholic homophobic, take Crimee
Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #1754 on: February 16, 2012, 08:24:47 pm »
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This is what's wrong with this game. Maybe shua doesn't have the time that you or Badger or Purple State had. That's okay. I think shua's a great GM and he's a great person. We're becoming so much like the United States in the sense that we just go off on these ideologically-fueled rants with bias hid behind rhetoric. It's ridiculous. We vote for people based on ideology, we say we disapprove of them and then don't tell them why when they ask, we exile them from politics and then we rinse and repeat. I just can't comprehend this. At all.

Amen.

Explain how Shua is a great GM.

There is absolutely no way that you can except for stupid populist niceties that are completely fake. By no metric has he been good, but you only stick to that because I dislike him and you like him.

You can say he's been okay. But calling him "great" is preposterous. Objectively so. This is not something that is up to an opinion. He has made barely any updates in almost three months. He has done only one of the three budget updates scheduled of him. He has updated less than all previous Game Moderators for the last two and ahalf years aside from those that were only GM for a hot minute before getting replaced.

Stop willfully ignoring reality just to appear fake-nice. The idea that anyone can sit here and call him one of the greats blows my mind, and can only be done by people that clearly do not care about his performance at all and just want to maintain an appearance of being a "good guy."
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R2D2
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« Reply #1755 on: February 16, 2012, 09:16:04 pm »
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Nobody ever called him "one of the greats", Marokai...
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1756 on: February 16, 2012, 09:29:57 pm »
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This is just patently ridiculous here. Roll Eyes


Instead of trying to argue with Napoleon over a subjective rating of shua's performance, why not instead pursue the original line of complain with an inquiry into just how shua orginated those numbers? He mentioned IRS data tables and such, why not ask for them and for how he translated that into his numbers. All the current line of arguement is going to achieve is pissing somebody off, for no benefit to yourself or your position at all.
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He's BACK!!! His Time Has Come Once Again! Now We're All Gonna Die! No One is Safe From His Wrath!



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« Reply #1757 on: February 16, 2012, 11:46:40 pm »
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I really do appreciate people trying to defend me, but there's no need for it here.  It's just giving our esteemed PPT an opportunity to criticize me while ignoring my posts.
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" But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
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« Reply #1758 on: February 17, 2012, 12:05:14 am »
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I really do appreciate people trying to defend me, but there's no need for it here.  It's just giving our esteemed PPT an opportunity to criticize me while ignoring my posts.

The only thing that's sticking with me here and irritating me is the raping of the word "great" to the point that it apparently means nothing, anymore. Whatever problems I have with your numbers, I'll deal with them because you are still GM and what you say goes, regardless.
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« Reply #1759 on: February 17, 2012, 01:24:47 am »
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I really do appreciate people trying to defend me, but there's no need for it here.  It's just giving our esteemed PPT an opportunity to criticize me while ignoring my posts.

By "esteemed", do you mean "bitter, sloth, and creepy"?
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Please Senators, don't let the Russians, a folk of alcoholic homophobic, take Crimee
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« Reply #1760 on: February 17, 2012, 01:31:31 am »
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I really do appreciate people trying to defend me, but there's no need for it here.  It's just giving our esteemed PPT an opportunity to criticize me while ignoring my posts.

The only thing that's sticking with me here and irritating me is the raping of the word "great" to the point that it apparently means nothing, anymore. Whatever problems I have with your numbers, I'll deal with them because you are still GM and what you say goes, regardless.
Nothings in stone here. I have no problem receiving constructive input to incorporate into future updates, or even to correct things I've already posted in case of an obvious error. If at some point you have a specific suggestion that doesn't involve being dismissive of the work I've put into something, I'll be glad to hear it.
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" But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order."
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« Reply #1761 on: February 20, 2012, 11:45:16 pm »
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The biggest drop off in jobperformance has been in the PPT position. Bgwah was great and active, Marokai is inactiveand here only to troll. Yet, Marokai wants to bitch about GM Shua. Cute.
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« Reply #1762 on: February 21, 2012, 10:07:07 am »
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The biggest drop off in jobperformance has been in the PPT position. Bgwah was great and active, Marokai is inactiveand here only to troll. Yet, Marokai wants to bitch about GM Shua. Cute.

Please explain (I'm referring to the part in bold print).
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« Reply #1763 on: February 21, 2012, 11:36:39 am »
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The biggest drop off in jobperformance has been in the PPT position. Bgwah was great and active, Marokai is inactiveand here only to troll. Yet, Marokai wants to bitch about GM Shua. Cute.

Please explain (I'm referring to the part in bold print).

Bills sit on the floorway too long with no debate, mostly his own bad ideas.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #1764 on: February 24, 2012, 09:45:44 am »
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The biggest drop off in jobperformance has been in the PPT position. Bgwah was great and active, Marokai is inactiveand here only to troll. Yet, Marokai wants to bitch about GM Shua. Cute.

Please explain (I'm referring to the part in bold print).

Bills sit on the floorway too long with no debate, mostly his own bad ideas.

Until today, I had spent the last two and ahalf days in bed incredibly sick (at one point I slept a solid, uninterrupted, 14 hours), and with my moments of actually being here, I had no desire to deal with whatever trouble I knew you would predictably be stirring because I took even a single day off. Because I was sick, and knowing the Senate needed to continue moving, I asked BK to take over for me, and he declined to do so.

I am a human being with human frailties, and as such, my immune system isn't always super awesome, but we have a President that has basically done nothing here and taken the last few weeks of his term off entirely, and a Vice President who will not come to the aid of a PPT who requests his help. If you would like to bitch at someone, do it at the people you pander to and excuse, and not to me.

I have returned now and the Senate will begin to move again. Aside from this absence, I have been a very active PPT, something literally no one else aside from you would argue with. I'll take the vast majority's opinion over yours. Thanks.
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« Reply #1765 on: February 24, 2012, 10:48:26 am »
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There is of course no justified reason to call the current PPT "inactive", and I would say 90% of the previous Senate (now it's probably 100%) disagree with the claim of inactivity. Such a statement is deliberately dishonest. Furthermore, it is outright hypocritical to attack Marokai for being "inactive" and to ignore the activity issues of the current administration.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #1766 on: February 24, 2012, 03:30:05 pm »
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No excuses, and I think you are lying anyway.

You should have posted a LOA. You have been posting all over the rest of the forum. You willfully neglected your duties.
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R2D2
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« Reply #1767 on: February 24, 2012, 03:32:10 pm »
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No excuses, and I think you are lying anyway.

You should have posted a LOA. You have been posting all over the rest of the forum. You willfully neglected your duties.

I think you just need a reason to bash Marokai.
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« Reply #1768 on: February 24, 2012, 03:33:37 pm »
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No excuses, and I think you are lying anyway.

You should have posted a LOA. You have been posting all over the rest of the forum. You willfully neglected your duties.

I think you just need a reason to bash Marokai.

I think you should look at the facts.

I think you should be as upset as I am that the most useless bill introduced during my whole time as senator sat on the floor for two whole weeks. Yeah, three days of flu did that. Please.

What prevented Marokai from posting publicly that he would be gone? Explain that.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 03:38:46 pm by Governor Napoleon »Logged

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« Reply #1769 on: February 24, 2012, 03:48:31 pm »
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Napoleon loves finding reasons to bash Marokai, and then plays the victim.  It's his MO.
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« Reply #1770 on: February 24, 2012, 03:55:05 pm »
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Napoleon loves finding reasons to bash Marokai, and then plays the victim.  It's his MO.

I really don't; the two of you should do your jobs then I wouldn't have anything to complain about. Marokai once bashed me for being gone for two days with no internet access at all, this guy has been posting just fine the whole time. Two days vs. two weeks. Why weren't you pointing out that Marokai loves to bash me? Right, you also love to bash me. This is a legitimate criticism. A PPT who mysteriously goes inactive without the courtesy of a public LOA is a hindrance to the Senate and the game.

Marokai writes thousand word posts bashing shua and Snowguy and me, of whoever else, and when I point out something we should all be upset about, this is how you react?
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R2D2
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« Reply #1771 on: February 24, 2012, 03:59:19 pm »
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Because real life is more important than some game. If Marokai was sick, he is not mandated to post anything on this forum.
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« Reply #1772 on: February 24, 2012, 04:02:00 pm »
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No excuses, and I think you are lying anyway.

You should have posted a LOA. You have been posting all over the rest of the forum. You willfully neglected your duties.

I think you just need a reason to bash Marokai.

I think you should look at the facts.

I think you should be as upset as I am that the most useless bill introduced during my whole time as senator sat on the floor for two whole weeks. Yeah, three days of flu did that. Please.

What prevented Marokai from posting publicly that he would be gone? Explain that.

Facts are a very curious thing.

Fact 1: You claimed Marokai was an inactive PPT. Let's try to measure that objectively. Since he was elected to the position of PPT, Marokai has created 17 Senate threads and maintained a couple of other threads. Even if he has not been able to update certain threads for a very short time span, your statement is still objectively inaccurate.

Fact 2: You criticized Marokai for "willfully neglecting" his duties because he has not updated certain debate threads for one or two days. On the other hand, we have a President who has not posted in the White House thread which he created himself for weeks and who has not signed numerous bills for several days. But yet you ignore the President's inactivity or even defend the President against any justified claims of inactivity.

This makes me conclude that 20RP12 was right with his assertion that you only need a reason to bash Marokai - no matter how far-fetched that reason is.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #1773 on: February 24, 2012, 04:04:15 pm »
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Because real life is more important than some game. If Marokai was sick, he is not mandated to post anything on this forum.

So, Marokai can criticize me for it and be hypocritical later on? No. I disagree. I also have already pointed out that this whole inactivity thing started back a while ago, not just these last couple days where he has ignored everything. Bgwah never would have let so many of these bills sit with no debate.
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R2D2
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« Reply #1774 on: February 24, 2012, 04:05:47 pm »
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Because real life is more important than some game. If Marokai was sick, he is not mandated to post anything on this forum.

So, Marokai can criticize me for it and be hypocritical later on? No. I disagree. I also have already pointed out that this whole inactivity thing started back a while ago, not just these last couple days where he has ignored everything. Bgwah never would have let so many of these bills sit with no debate.

I never took Marokai's side. If a Senator is sick, they're sick. They are not required to tell the forum, period. And no one can accuse that Senator of inactivity simply because they didn't post an LOA.
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