Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We Are Above The Use Of Slavery And To Think Otherwise Is Unpatriotic And Immoral Amendment

Article VI, Section VIII of The Atlasian Constitution is amended to read:
Neither shall the Republic of Atlasia nor any of its constituent regions enforce compulsory conscription upon any citizen.

For Jbrase because obviously, I enjoy pain.

I was actually going to introduce a compromised version of this amendment, but hey, debating the exact same thing over and over is fun, right kids?

I know, I wasn't expecting him to pm me asking to introduce that today though, and I never say no to such a respected constituent. Perhaps you could consult with him and see if he would be willing to ask me to withdraw it in favor of yours.

[Jbrase]

Perhaps you could consult with him and see if he would be willing to ask me to withdraw it in favor of yours.

By now I am just assuming you guys never got my pms. Go ahead an withdraw mine in favor of his.


Also Senator Wormy introduced articles of impeachment quite a while ago. Not that I am saying Fuzzy needs to be impeached, but that fact someone brought forward articles of impeachment and there is nothing being done about it is a huge sign that something is broken here. I highly suggest a senator introduce some amendment to the SoP to make sure impeachments, you know, actually happen when are supposed to in the future.

[Secretary Polnut]

We Are Above The Use Of Slavery And To Think Otherwise Is Unpatriotic And Immoral Amendment

Article VI, Section VIII of The Atlasian Constitution is amended to read:
Neither shall the Republic of Atlasia nor any of its constituent regions enforce compulsory conscription upon any citizen.

For Jbrase because obviously, I enjoy pain.

I was actually going to introduce a compromised version of this amendment, but hey, debating the exact same thing over and over is fun, right kids?

I know, I wasn't expecting him to pm me asking to introduce that today though, and I never say no to such a respected constituent. Perhaps you could consult with him and see if he would be willing to ask me to withdraw it in favor of yours.

Nothing like a dog that won't hunt... who can't let go of a bone

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Perhaps you could consult with him and see if he would be willing to ask me to withdraw it in favor of yours.

By now I am just assuming you guys never got my pms. Go ahead an withdraw mine in favor of his.


Also Senator Wormy introduced articles of impeachment quite a while ago. Not that I am saying Fuzzy needs to be impeached, but that fact someone brought forward articles of impeachment and there is nothing being done about it is a huge sign that something is broken here. I highly suggest a senator introduce some amendment to the SoP to make sure impeachments, you know, actually happen when are supposed to in the future.

You mean amendment to the constitution? That is the only procedures for impeachments and it leaves it in the hands of the Chief Justice.

I think this is one instance where not having a two house legislature is inconvenient. We shouldn't proceed to trial whenever a Senator introduces articles of impeachement. Perhaps require passage of a Senate measure by some specified majority first.

[Jbrase]

You mean amendment to the constitution? That is the only procedures for impeachments and it leaves it in the hands of the Chief Justice.

I think this is one instance where not having a two house legislature is inconvenient. We shouldn't proceed to trial whenever a Senator introduces articles of impeachement. Perhaps require passage of a Senate measure by some specified majority first.

Well it should ensure that it is brought up right away and that ends any possibility that the trial wont happen simply because the CJ doesn't feel like starting it. 

[Ebowed]

I'm open to correction, but I was under the impression that the Attorney General's term was about to conclude and I was notified of the motion for impeachment (in passing, in IRC) shortly after the IDS lawsuit came into fruition.

Edit: I just had a look over the charges again and I'm more than a little confused.  If someone could provide me with an objective explanation as to what occurred, I would appreciate that and we can move from there.  You have to forgive me for not taking the charges seriously the first time I read them given the comical nature of trying someone on an online simulation for 'armed robbery.'

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This "Good Neighbor Resolution" contains several changes to the OSPR that I find to be troubling. Most of them seem to simply complicate the procedures unnecessarily as Senators can motion to table bills they find objectionable under current rules. To create a separate and more complex procedure for doing the same thing seems rather pointless.

The third modification is the one that is most disturbing. It modifies the explusion procedures in a way that would allow the the overwhelming majority of the Senate to gang up on and exterminate a lone wolf member. Currently, the expulsion procedures are shackled merely to an issue of competence only, that of innactivity. To expand it to a more vague standard with a possibly easy to manipulate procedure would be in my opinion, the greatest of mistakes. The voters determine who represents them and what views they have, not the oppressive tyranny of a majority seeking to silence opposition and dissent in what is supposed to be our "Great Deliberative Body".

[Senator Ben]

I too am disturbed by the "Good Neighbor Resolution."  It could lead to any two Senators obstructing the work of the Senate.

[Redalgo]

Your objections are duly noted. However, at the time I drafted the resolution in question I could not scheme up a more effective method of obstructing Atlasian efforts to partake in unjust wars, prop up regimes with dubious human rights records, or seek terms of trade with other nations that are exploitative of other peoples by their very nature without resorting to a constitutional amendment - which would almost surely fail to succeed.

I do welcome any suggestions on how to achieve the ends of my legislation via more efficient and/or less dangerous means, but in the meanwhile I'll be inclined to lean toward a Madisonian rationale that it is better for our government to be inefficient and gridlocked than for it to enact measures crafted to suit the selfish ends of a potent (in this case realist/nationalist) political faction that has accumulated a dangerous measure of influence.

The GNR clearly has flaws and weaknesses. I am willing to amend it myself prior to its introduction on the floor of the Senate if ya'll speak up and give me something cleverer to work with.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What is this dangerous faction you speak of? I am not aware of any situation that Atlasia would enter a war without the broad consensus of multiple parties as the occassions where one party has had the Presidency and an outright majority in the Senate are few and far between going back atleast to 2008 and probably all the way to 2004 when the Democrats controlled the entire game for a while.

[Redalgo]

As a general rule, my focus is on moving toward a vision for the future rather than on the here and now - on reacting to problems which have already emerged. Preventing an abuse of power before the factions to hypothetically be responsible have mustered their strength is important to me. To answer your question, however, I suspect the half of the Senate in support of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty could eventually develop into such a threat, and it's no secret that I have some degree of distrust for neo-realists when it comes to foreign policy.

[Senator Ben]

I suspect the half of the Senate in support of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty could eventually develop into such a threat, and it's no secret that I have some degree of distrust for neo-realists when it comes to foreign policy.

Seriously?  I couldn't disagree more.

[Emperor SJoyce]

I suspect the half of the Senate in support of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty could eventually develop into such a threat, and it's no secret that I have some degree of distrust for neo-realists when it comes to foreign policy.

Judging by the legislation you have introduced so far, Senator, you are much more dangerous to the continued existence of Atlasia as we know it than any such bloc. The Internationale? Changing our flag to some kind of socialist propaganda? Really?

[Redalgo]

The third modification is the one that is most disturbing. It modifies the explusion procedures in a way that would allow the the overwhelming majority of the Senate to gang up on and exterminate a lone wolf member. Currently, the expulsion procedures are shackled merely to an issue of competence only, that of innactivity. To expand it to a more vague standard with a possibly easy to manipulate procedure would be in my opinion, the greatest of mistakes. The voters determine who represents them and what views they have, not the oppressive tyranny of a majority seeking to silence opposition and dissent in what is supposed to be our "Great Deliberative Body".

Having considered this objection at greater length, I have reached a conclusion that this part of the resolution is excessively heavy-handed and carries with it a risk of unraveling the pluralistic nature of the federal government's legislative branch. The resolution shall be edited immediately to remove the provision in question. My thanks go out to Yankee for recognizing and bringing to my attention the potential for unintended abuses. 

Judging by the legislation you have introduced so far, Senator, you are much more dangerous to the continued existence of Atlasia as we know it than any such bloc. The Internationale? Changing our flag to some kind of socialist propaganda? Really?

What business does a left wing representative have seeking office if they are uncommitted to an agenda for replacing the established order with one which is new and improved? Yes - that does make me very dangerous indeed from the perspective of those who defend the old ways. And I'm proud to take on that label of being "dangerous," and to advertise my intent with as much candor as I have passion. A better world is possible!

Still, on the issue of the Good Neighbor Resolution it is I who has chosen to champion the interests of people from all nations - not just those who reside in our own. If you have ideas for how I may implement my policy objectives on this matter at a lesser risk to the integrity of social institutions, then great. Let me know so I've an opportunity to compromise. Otherwise, I would kindly ask that my colleagues in the Senate please spare me any further protest and prepare themselves to vote in accordance to their principles, just as I will.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Another minor change you might want to make is to replace the instances of "74 hours" with "72 hours" a much more common time requirement/period throughout the OSPR.

[Redalgo]

Good catch - 72 had been the intended increment of time.

[Governor Scott]

Just writing this because there's been some reports of a severe thunderstorm near where I live.  If I'm unavailable for the next couple days or so, it is because we've lost power.

Thinking positively, though...

[shua]

As a general rule, my focus is on moving toward a vision for the future rather than on the here and now - on reacting to problems which have already emerged. Preventing an abuse of power before the factions to hypothetically be responsible have mustered their strength is important to me. To answer your question, however, I suspect the half of the Senate in support of the Atlasia-Israel Defense and Security Cooperation Treaty could eventually develop into such a threat, and it's no secret that I have some degree of distrust for neo-realists when it comes to foreign policy.

The solution to that would be to require a two-thirds approval to go to war, or at the very least, to approve treaties that promise we will go to war on another's behalf.

[Governor Scott]

Another storm came...

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Scott, this is a bad place to be putting Leaves of Absence. The Standard procedure has been to create a thread for it. I didn't even see any of these in here, till just now.

[Governor Scott]

Sorry about that.

[Emperor SJoyce]

Hey, isn't the Antarctic Incorporation Act supposed to be 3rd in the queue?

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There is a scrolling issue on my computer that makes highligthing a single line diffulty on the bottom of long posts. Therefore, I have to use the old fashion methods to remove links and it must of been erased with the backspace somehow.

[Frodo]

The third modification is the one that is most disturbing. It modifies the explusion procedures in a way that would allow the the overwhelming majority of the Senate to gang up on and exterminate a lone wolf member. Currently, the expulsion procedures are shackled merely to an issue of competence only, that of innactivity. To expand it to a more vague standard with a possibly easy to manipulate procedure would be in my opinion, the greatest of mistakes. The voters determine who represents them and what views they have, not the oppressive tyranny of a majority seeking to silence opposition and dissent in what is supposed to be our "Great Deliberative Body".

Having considered this objection at greater length, I have reached a conclusion that this part of the resolution is excessively heavy-handed and carries with it a risk of unraveling the pluralistic nature of the federal government's legislative branch. The resolution shall be edited immediately to remove the provision in question. My thanks go out to Yankee for recognizing and bringing to my attention the potential for unintended abuses. 

Judging by the legislation you have introduced so far, Senator, you are much more dangerous to the continued existence of Atlasia as we know it than any such bloc. The Internationale? Changing our flag to some kind of socialist propaganda? Really?

What business does a left wing representative have seeking office if they are uncommitted to an agenda for replacing the established order with one which is new and improved? Yes - that does make me very dangerous indeed from the perspective of those who defend the old ways. And I'm proud to take on that label of being "dangerous," and to advertise my intent with as much candor as I have passion. A better world is possible!

Still, on the issue of the Good Neighbor Resolution it is I who has chosen to champion the interests of people from all nations - not just those who reside in our own. If you have ideas for how I may implement my policy objectives on this matter at a lesser risk to the integrity of social institutions, then great. Let me know so I've an opportunity to compromise. Otherwise, I would kindly ask that my colleagues in the Senate please spare me any further protest and prepare themselves to vote in accordance to their principles, just as I will.

----------------------

Redalgo, you have some of the most interesting and thought-provoking bills and proposals of any senator past or present that I have ever encountered.  I earnestly hope you stick around. 

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Most definately. In fact my greatest concern is that initial lack of success will discourage him, which would be most unfortunate. He is certainly pilling a lot on his plate and it is inevitable in a body that rejects many smaller items, that such large transformations will be a monumental undertaking for anyone.