Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Dr. Cynic]

And how would you rate my performance???

I don't think that has much to do with anything, really. No one's complaining about the job you've done. It's just about cleaning up the rules, really... The VP was never a particularly active office apart from acting as an adviser to the President and some minor Senate duties. You've been very active, Windjammer, but really the office itself doesn't require much. If we can clean up the rules, more's the better.

[windjammer]

And how would you rate my performance???

I don't think that has much to do with anything, really. No one's complaining about the job you've done. It's just about cleaning up the rules, really... The VP was never a particularly active office apart from acting as an adviser to the President and some minor Senate duties. You've been very active, Windjammer, but really the office itself doesn't require much. If we can clean up the rules, more's the better.

So this is my activity the problem? That's weird. That's someone worthy of Atlasia. A Justice failed to be impeached even if he didn't post during more than one month, and someone who just wants to be active, there is an attempt to strip him all of his duties.

[Dr. Cynic]

And how would you rate my performance???

I don't think that has much to do with anything, really. No one's complaining about the job you've done. It's just about cleaning up the rules, really... The VP was never a particularly active office apart from acting as an adviser to the President and some minor Senate duties. You've been very active, Windjammer, but really the office itself doesn't require much. If we can clean up the rules, more's the better.

So this is my activity the problem? That's weird. That's someone worthy of Atlasia. A Justice failed to be impeached even if he didn't post during more than one month, and someone who just wants to be active, there is an attempt to strip him all of his duties.

We've said it a dozen times. Your activity isn't the issue. The issue is that the rules are ambiguous at best and they should be fixed.

[bore]

The whole debate over whether the VP or a senator should administer the senate seems tangential to the whole point of Nix's proposal. The rules can be written in the same way giving the power entirely to the VP or entirely to a senator, the point is they are much clearer than the current mess.

In fact, Nix's proposal while needing a wee bit of tweaking and debate strikes me as very like the Northeast SOAP's, as in, easy to understand and administer. The Northeast's speaker (by the way, a non partisan office) changes almost every session, and each time, from cinci to cync to alfred to deus to whoever else, the result is effective administration. The same happening to the senate is unimaginable.

Let's not let controversy over the VP get in the way of this needed simplification of senate procedures.

[GAworth]

And how would you rate my performance???

I don't think that has much to do with anything, really. No one's complaining about the job you've done. It's just about cleaning up the rules, really... The VP was never a particularly active office apart from acting as an adviser to the President and some minor Senate duties. You've been very active, Windjammer, but really the office itself doesn't require much. If we can clean up the rules, more's the better.

So this is my activity the problem? That's weird. That's someone worthy of Atlasia. A Justice failed to be impeached even if he didn't post during more than one month, and someone who just wants to be active, there is an attempt to strip him all of his duties.

Ok, step back from the key board, think of happy thoughts, and then come back. I don't think everyone is having a problem with your activity, in fact I am glad to see an active VP. The rules do need to be cleared and as Bore said, the word speaker could be replaced with President, thus you would be in charge and that is not the main issue.

[Poirot]

For the energy sector debate, perhaps the Senate could look into a different model. There could be partial nationalization. I googled Statoil in Norway and it says it is owned 67% by government. Maybe we could have government control in a private sector setting (still need to make profit).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I typed up an alternative to Nix's proposal, but I seem to have misplaced the version I typed up this morning. It is probably saved on my computer but I am sure I saved to the flash drive. Anyone here is the outline of what it contains differently and I will try to get it posted later if possible.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[windjammer]

I don't understand the logic.

If I understand correctly, I was accused of "executive overreach".
And now, the only prerogatives you want to give to the VP is basically the Confirmation hearing?

Do you realize that the Confirmation hearings are basically made after the President's actions? That wouldn't be an executive overreach if his own VP would administer the thread for the confirmation of his administration???

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't understand the logic.

If I understand correctly, I was accused of "executive overreach".
And now, the only prerogatives you want to give to the VP is basically the Confirmation hearing?

Do you realize that the Confirmation hearings are basically made after the President's actions? That wouldn't be an executive overreach if his own VP would administer the thread for the confirmation of his administration???

Hold up, Nix's limits you to Confirmation Hearings. Mine basically gives the VP what Cincy was doing. I am sorry if that is confused. I don't have the latest version of the text, if I did it would ve clearer and the one I have from last night is a 1 AM wonder, a mess with spelling errors and is 2600 words instead of 2400.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Very nice, Yankee. I'm especially encouraged that your revisions still result in nearly a two-thirds reduction in word count.

We'll have to hash out some of these differences once the rules resolution reaches the floor, but I think we'll be able to agree on resolutions to all but a few points of difference without controversy.

The vast bulk is aged junk and even where we previously condensed, I found ways to reduce further. So while it is 11% larger that yours, I feel mine saves some arms and legs that yours removed like the clogging rule, checks on expulsion and the inability to exempt from things like expulsion.

[windjammer]

I don't understand the logic.

If I understand correctly, I was accused of "executive overreach".
And now, the only prerogatives you want to give to the VP is basically the Confirmation hearing?

Do you realize that the Confirmation hearings are basically made after the President's actions? That wouldn't be an executive overreach if his own VP would administer the thread for the confirmation of his administration???

Hold up, Nix's limits you to Confirmation Hearings. Mine basically gives the VP what Cincy was doing. I am sorry if that is confused. I don't have the latest version of the text, if I did it would ve clearer and the one I have from last night is a 1 AM wonder, a mess with spelling errors and is 2600 words instead of 2400.

You don't understand my point Yankee.

Both you and Averroes are going to limit the VP's actions to things where the President has the most influence: the  Confirmation hearing.
You want to avoid executive overreach, and the prerogative you're giving to the VP are the Confirmation hearings: nomination made by the President.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't understand the logic.

If I understand correctly, I was accused of "executive overreach".
And now, the only prerogatives you want to give to the VP is basically the Confirmation hearing?

Do you realize that the Confirmation hearings are basically made after the President's actions? That wouldn't be an executive overreach if his own VP would administer the thread for the confirmation of his administration???

Hold up, Nix's limits you to Confirmation Hearings. Mine basically gives the VP what Cincy was doing. I am sorry if that is confused. I don't have the latest version of the text, if I did it would ve clearer and the one I have from last night is a 1 AM wonder, a mess with spelling errors and is 2600 words instead of 2400.

You don't understand my point Yankee.

Both you and Averroes are going to limit the VP's actions to things where the President has the most influence: the  Confirmation hearing.
You want to avoid executive overreach, and the prerogative you're giving to the VP are the Confirmation hearings: nomination made by the President.

The concern for overreach is primarily the executive intruding into the legislation affairs. Executive appoints are just that, and merely require the advise and consent of the Senate.

[windjammer]

I don't understand the logic.

If I understand correctly, I was accused of "executive overreach".
And now, the only prerogatives you want to give to the VP is basically the Confirmation hearing?

Do you realize that the Confirmation hearings are basically made after the President's actions? That wouldn't be an executive overreach if his own VP would administer the thread for the confirmation of his administration???

Hold up, Nix's limits you to Confirmation Hearings. Mine basically gives the VP what Cincy was doing. I am sorry if that is confused. I don't have the latest version of the text, if I did it would ve clearer and the one I have from last night is a 1 AM wonder, a mess with spelling errors and is 2600 words instead of 2400.

You don't understand my point Yankee.

Both you and Averroes are going to limit the VP's actions to things where the President has the most influence: the  Confirmation hearing.
You want to avoid executive overreach, and the prerogative you're giving to the VP are the Confirmation hearings: nomination made by the President.

The concern for overreach is primarily the executive intruding into the legislation affairs. Executive appoints are just that, and merely require the advise and consent of the Senate.

Intruding into the legislation affairs? The VP didn't have any power for the vote except the tie breaking vote. Legislative affairs merely require the advise and consent of the Senate too.

I'm not VP anymore, but when I was VP, I absolutely wanted to avoid any conflict with the fact that I was the second of the President, that's why I didn't want to administer the Presidential slots.

Why not replacing the confirmation hearings by the constitutional amendments ??

Ii'm not saying that for bothering you, and really.

[windjammer]

And in addition,
for the constitutionnal amendments, considering the VP can't break the ties, he would do that really fairly.

To be honest, when I became VP, I really hesitated with this incarnation:
-doing the constitutional amendments stuff because I couldn't break the tie.
-and for the bills, letting the PPT do all the stuff, and me basically behaving as the 11th senator.


It seems I should have behaved like that haha.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The thing is what people complained about though was ironically what elected to do as opposed to what you elected not to do precisely for the concerns. You were a rather careful VP and thus the outcry even baffles me and maybe it has just been building for a while and seeing the VP run 15 slots was the straw that broke the camels back.

Either way I think we are better off with an active VP and more active then the one envision by next. After all it was his slave err VP that helped secure the notion of active VP as opposed to letting it die with Duke leaving office as just a scheme of the Carolinians.

By way of having the VP as the presiding officer and superior to the PPT and able to perform all his duties meant the VP could can legislation for instance and that would be an example of interferring with the legislative process. Administering a slot is relatively safe and save for an amendment o legislation, nothing can really be done that poses a risk.

Anyway I got the rules alternative finally. Took a good cross country run to obtain it though.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I composed it in word but my neighbor's computer doesn't have word so I had to paste it in to notepad so I am fortunate the spacing isn't worse in spots.

[windjammer]

The thing is what people complained about though was ironically what elected to do as opposed to what you elected not to do precisely for the concerns. You were a rather careful VP and thus the outcry even baffles me and maybe it has just been building for a while and seeing the VP run 15 slots was the straw that broke the camels back.

Either way I think we are better off with an active VP and more active then the one envision by next. After all it was his slave err VP that helped secure the notion of active VP as opposed to letting it die with Duke leaving office as just a scheme of the Carolinians.

By way of having the VP as the presiding officer and superior to the PPT and able to perform all his duties meant the VP could can legislation for instance and that would be an example of interferring with the legislative process. Administering a slot is relatively safe and save for an amendment o legislation, nothing can really be done that poses a risk.

Anyway I got the rules alternative finally. Took a good cross country run to obtain it though.

Yankee, I think you have again missed my point .

I want an active VP too. I think I was an "active" VP, and that I really tried to be the fairest possible. But, if you're going to change his role, I obviously disagree, but, at least, do not give the VP basically the most "executive-oriented" slots. That would be, again, criticized in the future.

I have really loved my job, that's the best experience I have ever had during my atlasian time (except my fall ).

I want an active VP too. You don't think that if the PPT does all the bills/confirmation stuffs, and the VP the constitutionnal amendment stuff, that would be great?
The VP would have many responsibilities (we have often constitutionnal amendments), and he coudln't be criticized for any reason because he couldn't use his tie breaking vote for that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You would have to create slots just for amendments and that would add to complexity, not lessen it.

I don't recall anyone criticizing the executive slots. Consider that a while ago MaroDuke was trying to make the VP an actual Senator because omg, President has to have a Senator introduce stuff and it is not like you need six of them to pass it oh wait you do...

Managing slots is rather tame. Most of the complaints I saw dealt with the scale, but remember because of my problems, reading any such situation might be incorrect. I am still blaming myself and my inability to get on for leading to your resignation to being with.

Lol this computer autocorrected Nix's name to next in the post you quoted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I just remembered something that both mine and Nix forgot to include. Senate Succession of seats and votes. Failure to do vote displacement would violate the constitutional allotment of seats. Imagine if the votes were counted from ME Senator, his successor takes officer and his vote is likewise counted. You have 11 votes.

As for at-large seats it is governed by one of the Proportional Represenation Acts.

1: shua-spiral-Deus
2. Lumine
3. Alfred-Polnut
4. Goldwater-JCL
5. Dr. Cynic

[Poirot]

Good question. Yesterday I noticed there was no swearing in for senate yet. The election was almost two weeks ago. I figured maybe it's two full weeks after the election has ended. I haven't gone to check what the rules say to know the exact dates, I just go by memory of a delay of about two weeks.

[Poirot]

September 5th looks like a first Friday after the election!

This would be the exact text:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Lumine]

Indeed, I knew I was supposed to swear-in earlier in the week, but I got a bit distracted... I've also sent a message to the rest of the At-Large Senators so we can swear-in as soon as possible.