Police Militarization and Civil Rights Act (Passed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

First off I want to apologize for my absence yesterday, the neighbors got back from work late and I couldn't get on the internet until this afternoon.

I want to first say, in response to Cranberry, that I understand his concerns about privacy. My first reaction was oh lord 1984, here we come. But the more I thought about it, the more I came to realize, if the police is already on the scene through probably cause/warrants whatever, adding a camera adds no further loss of privacy not already caused by the presence of the officer.

Second of all the camera protects both the officer as well as the citizen. In Palo Alto, complaints against the police were down ~85%. No system is perfect, but in terms of reducing the instances of cops facing false complaints, then this system is preferable to the current system of the officers word against the citizen and vice versa.

If people find a general mandate for the Department of Justice sufficient, then I will be fine with that. I wasn't sure if there was possible and DoIA agency as well that should be involved or note, since it is a program working with local and state police departments. I am also open to discuss the exact funding amounts and duration for the program to be in place.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes I see your point, what would you suggest Senator bore to resolve the problem?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How much money could be raised from scrapping the surplus and is there any other downside to doing that?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I appreciate this debate about police and why they exist but lets not forget the funding issue.

First is scraping surplus and using the money to pay for this feasible? Only one has responded so far on this matter.

Second, what about the NE, considering the Public Means Public Act, how do we go about distributing the money as this is a similar instance of one region already doing this?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Dr. Cynic makes a good point and it is what we did in the public means public act basically.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Cynic or bore, if you want to craft an amendment towards that end, I will regard it as friendly. I wasn't planning on getting sick or not being able to coordinate to get on with the neighbors overt the past two days and I hope to start work sometime this week. The upside is that this means I should have my internet back rather soon, but in the meantime, there will be a bit of a squeeze as I begin work and the timing gets more dififcult. I would hate to have to start this over.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Friendly.


What about the scraping military surplus as a source of funds?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I was just going to base it on what was an acceptable amount to be redirected from the military surplus value being distributed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Do we want to cut all or just part of that military surplus being distributed? Is there any value in having that being distributed at a lower level or at a later time. Answering these questions will help us guide how much to keep and the remainder to set aside for this project.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would support that move, but scrapping is probably safer, which is why I didn't suggest selling before.

Maybe a mix of the two. Sell what we can to Britain, France, Canada etc, scrap what we cannot.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How much funding does the federal government provide to local police departments?

As Deus pointed out, this military equipment is apparently giving directly, which surprised even me as I expected it was sold to them with funds given to them for such purposes.

There are other forms of anti-terrorism that are direct cash handouts to the local police, as well as numerous other crime related funding streams.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The text was crafted before I made that realization courtesy of Deus.

It needs to be changed once we decide how we are going to do it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It was crafted on the basis of it being a temporary/partial redirection at a time when I was thinking it was a direct payout that was then used to buy the surplus. If that is not the case as Deus stated then that section will need to be altered.

I will try to do what I can but getting on line will be rather difficult after tomorrow until I get my internet back on Thursday.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have my internet back. I was hoping that at least some of this could have been resolved by now, but it is what it is.

I need some idea of what people will go for in order to know how to proceed.


First off Nix, is your question still unanswered as of this stage?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't know how better to clarify the situation, Nix. As I stated before, I crafted this on the understanding that it was a direct payout and apparently that is not the case.


Since it is a transfer of equipment without any cash chnaging hands, the first clause has to be replaced anyway to reflect the sale of the surplus equiptment and the money to then be directed to the region for stated purpose. As for the requirement that it be used for a specific purpose, it was my intent that such was to be case but if the text isn't solid enough, we can look at changing that.

I believe this is the third time I have tried to convey the same response. If there is something more you need answered, you will need to be more specific.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

No, I think I have my answer. This isn't going to work.

What isn't going to work? You are being rather cryptic.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

No, I think I have my answer. This isn't going to work.

What isn't going to work? You are being rather cryptic.

First, the cost of the obligations attached to the grant money could exceed the amount of the grant.

Second, we seem to have no idea how much money regional police departments receive from the federal government.

First off, we can address that problem rather simply. We go as far as we can with the funds allotted to bring as many departments into this system.

Second of all, I don't see the relevance unless those funds already go for this specific purpose and as far as I know most of the funding goes to anti-Terrorism and even if this surplus is not  direct money allotments, I know a large segment of those funding streams are.

I am confident there is a way to make this work.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Who is this for a new clause 1?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If you have any recommedations for alternative clauses or texts for portions or all of the present text, go ahead and post them for review (don't offer them as amendments basically) and that way we can formulate an acceptable design more quickly possibly.

Unfortunately my work hours have been changed for today and for tomorrow so I will have some time tomorrow evening to work on this after I get off and then again probably on Saturday morning.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment is friendly.

I have another concern that should be addressed and that is ensuring review or of potential of review of policy footage by either Internal Affairs or some such to ensure that the desired effect is achieved. I mean if they know iti s not going to be taken seriously and that footage will never be reviewed, it decreasing the benefit in terms of reduced police violations of procedure/abuse as only a law suit will make such forthcoming and we know certain people, the poor and minorities, those with records, and illegal aliens would be reluctant to pursue action. Even on a randomized basis, a review by Internal Affairs or some such would provide the desired inducement.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

bore, Polnut, Nixy baby, thoughts on my last point?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Are there any other concerns remaining then?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think we are ready to proceed to a final vote then.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Indeed, but if we were to run out of "legitimate buyers", the last thing we want to do is have it wind up in the wrong hands. That sh**t is dangerous, scrap value can generate at least some income and ensure that it is not delivered into the wrong hands.

Are there text changes you want on this matter?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I understand your concern windjammer, but if the weapons were to be stockpiled and or sold to the wrong people by a bueaucrat is only concerned about getting as much money as possible, those guns could be used to start a war or facilitate a terrorist attack and then the cost could be trillions.


And yes, I just wandered into the same argument used to defend gun control.