Protests in Hong Kong

[Panda Express]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29405195


Apparently China is trying to exert more control in the 2017 Hong Kong elections

[Simfan34]

Well, more control relative to what had been expected. The people will get to directly elect the Chief Executive for the first time, as was agreed on before the handover. The problem is Beijing insisting upon approving the candidates beforehand- which makes the whole exercise essentially moot.

[politicus]

Here is a decent link:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/31/world/asia/hong-kong-elections/

The idea of Hongkong continuing as a sort of democracy in an authoritarian state was always futile.

[anvi]

So, as I understand it, there are two issues here.  

The first is that, though candidates for the Chief Executive of Hong Kong had up to now been nominated and then elected by an election council (recently expanded in size), there was a legal aspiration of achieving universal suffrage in the selection of the Chief Executive by 2017.  But some days ago, before the Hong Kong Legislative Council could approve that measure (with a 2/3 vote necessary), Beijing reversed itself and said the selection process would remain in the hands of the election council for the 2017 Chief Executive race.

The other issue is that, last year, Beijing injected some very discernible ambiguity on the issue of who may be considered eligible for nomination.  Previously, candidates for the Chief Executive office were required to be politically non-aligned.  But the language Beijing officials introduced as criteria for nomination last year strongly intimated that eligible candidates had to be judged loyal to Beijing, which is new to the process in Hong Kong.  This is the very criterion that is applied to ballot elections in the Mainland, where, on the local level, candidates from different parties can run for office, but must make public statements of non-opposition to the CCP.

It seems the two issues converge here; Beijing, in exchange for opening up suffrage in the still-undetermined future, wanted to exert stricter control over the criteria of eligibility for the Chief Executive's office.  But then, they reversed themselves on the universal suffrage offer for the next cycle too.

The reversed universal suffrage promise and the apparent reining in of the eligibility criteria have thus catalyzed the Hong Kong protests.  Beijing is banking on getting their way, since, as they have at least nominally put universal suffrage on the table for...sometime in the future..., they can get away with getting a tighter political grip on the nominations process without fear of censure by the international community.  But, by igniting the protests, Hong Kong residents want to exert pressure on international opinion.

Not happy to see the tear gas flying.  I have friends in Hong Kong who are supporting the protesters and have marched with them before.  Tear gas is better than live bullets and tanks, of course, but, having had friends at Tianamen too, it's hard for '89 not to pop back into mind immediately when watching these scenes.

[Beet]

Have they backed off on universal suffrage for Chief Executive in 2017? I don't see it anywhere.

[anvi]

Sorry, my misunderstanding on the basis of a conversation.  Beijing has not pulled the universal suffrage language, but I don't think it's been voted on by the Leg Council yet, and it requires a 2/3 majority that seems in jeopardy.  But the candidate vetting language from Beijing seems the major problem.

[Beet]

No problem... most see the universal suffrage language as pretty useless with pre-selected pro-Beijing candidates anyway. With the current plan so unpopular in Hong Kong I wouldn't be surprised if it's not accepted.

[anvi]

Agreed, Beet.  When Beijing says "one country, two systems" with regard to Hong Kong ballet access, what it really means is apparently "one country, one system." 

Did Beijing underestimate the backlash in Hong Kong?  I mean, Occupy movements aside, Hong Kong residents are not shy about political protest.  Hell, there are pubs in Hong Kong called 6/4. 

[Famous Mortimer]

China is eventually just going to take over Hong Kong full stop. No more special status. I'm surprised they haven't done it already. What's to stop them?

[Beet]

Well for one thing, they agreed with the U.K. to guarantee Hong Kong's current social and economic system for at least 50 years as a condition of the handover. Up to now they have never had any reason to go back on that pledge; Hong Kong's special status has not cost them anything, and it has numerous advantages. For one, up until now the people of Hong Kong have been relatively happy with things. Two, it is useful to have a beacon of freedom within China that does not challenge the government's power; it is hard to imagine Edward Snowden fleeing to Shanghai, for instance. Three, China needs to court Taiwan's population to move towards the goal of eventual reunification, and "one country, two systems" has been proposed for Taiwan. Of course, if China ever saw a true threat to its power in Hong Kong, it would move in. That is why the Hong Kong protestors should be careful.

[politicus]

Protesters are now being attacked and harassed by groups of "regular Hong Kong citizens" both in the Causeway shopping area and the Mongkok district. According to demonstrators they are possibly instructed and paid for by the Chinese government. Hong Kong newspaper Apple Daily writes that anti-demonstrators are paid 40-50 US $ a day by the government, but some shopowners are also genuinely mad at not earning any money when their shops are closed. So far the students haven't fought back, since a confrontation could give an excuse to crack down hard on the protests. Police was absent from the confrontation, but came back in the evening and even arrested some of the most violent anti-demonstrators.

Hong Kong's leader Leung Chun-ying has agreed to let a top civil servant negotiate with the protesters, but they demand guarantees for their safety against the anti-demonstrators and so far the negotitations haven't started.

[Simfan34]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/03/hong-kong-leaders-daughter-mocks-protesters-thanks-taxpayers-for-all-her-all-my-beautiful-shoes/

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/03/hong-kong-leaders-daughter-mocks-protesters-thanks-taxpayers-for-all-her-all-my-beautiful-shoes/

Hopefully she faces the National Razor soon.