California Adopts 'Yes Means Yes' Sexual Assault Rule

[Simfan34]

This thread is a train wreck what the Christ did nobody else notice Mortimer claiming that spousal rape doesn't exist - by telling a story about how his friend was spousally raped??

Again, trying to find sinister intent in everything.

I said no such thing. Spousal rape exists for sure. Don't be a pedant.

Very well. Surely you've heard of "quitting while you're ahead"?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Glad you responded morty, quick question. the consent that is implicitly granted to you by virtue of enticing your date to enter your residence- does it also cover the kinky stuff?

asking for a friend

The whole 'entering one's residence' thing is like something out of Varney the Vampire.

[All Along The Watchtower]

This thread gave me Ebola. RIP

[Velasco]

Haha, a girl coming up for a drink after a date is definitely implied consent.

Obviously if you agree to a drink and say "NO" you mean "NO"

but if you agree to a drink and you don't say anything, you will come off as being coy, and that's probably your intention unless you're mentally ill or an idiot.

It's obvious that once in the apartment or wherever, the girl may think twice. Even when the girl says nothing, usually it's not difficult to perceive if your partner is unreceptive for whatever reason. You may be too horny or too drunk and then your mind works in slow motion, but still you should be able to perceive something, or just asking the girl if everything is OK before you launch the attack. It's a matter of common sense and carefulness towards other human being. If you fear being deemed as a coy or an idiot for being careful or asking, then you have a serious immaturity issue.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Obviously if you agree to a drink and say "NO" you mean "NO"

but if you agree to a drink and you don't say anything, you will come off as being coy, and that's probably your intention unless you're mentally ill or an idiot.

Sometimes people are having fun on a date, getting to know a person, and want to keep spending time with them, getting to know them a little more. That can be all.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Obviously if you agree to a drink and say "NO" you mean "NO"

but if you agree to a drink and you don't say anything, you will come off as being coy, and that's probably your intention unless you're mentally ill or an idiot.

Sometimes people are having fun on a date, getting to know a person, and want to keep spending time with them, getting to know them a little more. That can be all.

I don't know whether WillipsBrighton lacks experience in human interactions or he's projecting his fantasies here. Either way, it's pretty cringeworthy.

[The Dowager Mod]

[Gustaf]

This is...I...wow.

Like Angus, I can testify that someone inviting someone up for a drink does not always lead to sex and does not have to mean that.

Also, of course this is not about having to do some silly written contract or something. Getting consent is not that hard or weird. It usually flows naturally if you're not a douche.

[Famous Mortimer]

Haha, a girl coming up for a drink after a date is definitely implied consent.

Obviously if you agree to a drink and say "NO" you mean "NO"

but if you agree to a drink and you don't say anything, you will come off as being coy, and that's probably your intention unless you're mentally ill or an idiot.

It's obvious that once in the apartment or wherever, the girl may think twice. Even when the girl says nothing, usually it's not difficult to perceive if your partner is unreceptive for whatever reason. You may be too horny or too drunk and then your mind works in slow motion, but still you should be able to perceive something, or just asking the girl if everything is OK before you launch the attack. It's a matter of common sense and carefulness towards other human being. If you fear being deemed as a coy or an idiot for being careful or asking, then you have a serious immaturity issue.

Obviously consent can be withdrawn at any time but if you decide to withdraw consent after giving a series of green lights and non-verbal cues that are universally recognized as being into it, you should clearly state that you've changed your mind. Not to do so is stupid and negatively impacts everyone in the situation.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is...I...wow.

Like Angus, I can testify that someone inviting someone up for a drink does not always lead to sex and does not have to mean that.

As can I.

[Famous Mortimer]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, and she agrees, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

[Slander and/or Libel]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, and she agrees, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

Still revolting.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

I'm sure you're a world-renowed expert on female psychology.

[Famous Mortimer]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

I'm sure you're a world-renowed expert on female psychology.

You don't need to be an expert. Most people know this. Most women admit this. It's not a secret.

You guys are just apparently turning down massive amounts of sex.

[Person Man]

It usually happens but just because its happens 90% of the time doesn't mean it will 100% of the time. I can't remember when it didn't happen at all but there are times where either you or her won't ascend to "full intercourse". Oh. There was one time when I just was broken up in a really bad way and she just agreed to literally sleep naked. 

[Famous Mortimer]

It usually happens but just because its happens 90% of the time doesn't mean it will 100% of the time. I can't remember when it didn't happen at all but there are times where either you or her won't ascend to "full intercourse". Oh. There was one time when I just was broken up in a really bad way and she just agreed to literally sleep naked. 

I would say 90% is fair. There are exceptions to every rule. Exactly because it is so rare though, the woman should make clear if she is not into it. Otherwise she is sending mixed signals and needlessly getting herself into a situation she doesn't want.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

What on Earth is so hard about just not having sex unless the signals are clear?

[Slander and/or Libel]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

I'm sure you're a world-renowed expert on female psychology.

You don't need to be an expert. Most people know this. Most women admit this. It's not a secret.

You guys are just apparently turning down massive amounts of sex.

The problem with your position isn't that there aren't non-explicit signals of consent, which sometimes include invitations (or acceptance of invitations) to one's home. The problem is that you seem to be saying that's all a woman can mean by such an invitation or acceptance of such an invitation.

And BTW, 10% of the time is not "exceedingly rare," even if that truly does represent an actual number and not something that people are just ballparking for conversation purposes.

[Famous Mortimer]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

I'm sure you're a world-renowed expert on female psychology.

You don't need to be an expert. Most people know this. Most women admit this. It's not a secret.

You guys are just apparently turning down massive amounts of sex.

The problem with your position isn't that there aren't non-explicit signals of consent, which sometimes include invitations (or acceptance of invitations) to one's home. The problem is that you seem to be saying that's all a woman can mean by such an invitation or acceptance of such an invitation.

And BTW, 10% of the time is not "exceedingly rare," even if that truly does represent an actual number and not something that people are just ballparking for conversation purposes.

Acceptance of an invitation could mean other things, absolutely. But if that's the case, she should say so. Because most normal people are going to interpret it the normal way.

[Slander and/or Libel]

If you invite a woman up to your place for drinks, after going on a date, she is almost certainly willing to have sex with you. Just because you don't make the final move doesn't mean she wasn't signaling interest.

I'm sure you're a world-renowed expert on female psychology.

You don't need to be an expert. Most people know this. Most women admit this. It's not a secret.

You guys are just apparently turning down massive amounts of sex.

The problem with your position isn't that there aren't non-explicit signals of consent, which sometimes include invitations (or acceptance of invitations) to one's home. The problem is that you seem to be saying that's all a woman can mean by such an invitation or acceptance of such an invitation.

And BTW, 10% of the time is not "exceedingly rare," even if that truly does represent an actual number and not something that people are just ballparking for conversation purposes.

Acceptance of an invitation could mean other things, absolutely. But if that's the case, she should say so. Because most normal people are going to interpret it the normal way.

In other words, if she says, "Sure, I'll come up to your apartment" and winds up getting raped, it's her fault for not saying, "In this exceedingly rare case, I am not consenting to sex by saying I'll come up to your apartment"?

Is that about right? Men can presume that a woman wants to have sex with them unless the woman explicitly and forcefully sets them straight?

[Bacon King]

The more I read this thread the happier I am that this law is a thing and I hope it becomes widespread nationwide. The only practical difference between affirmative consent and existing law/policy is that under the former it's not a valid defense for the guy to say "she never said no" while she was being raped.

This is necessary because sexual assault often happens in situations where the woman is too scared or intimidated to say no or to otherwise explicitly refuse the man's advances. Men who are very assertive or sexually aggressive with women are often perceived to be dangerous (justifiably so in many cases), so a lot of time rape happens because a man attempts to initiate sex and the woman acquiesces because she fears that spurning his advances will cause a violent reaction.

Men can even do this unintentionally by ignoring signals of non-consent because they assume consent had already implicitly been granted (like inviting her up for a drink in a situation with sexual overtones) and assume that if she changed her mind after that point she would explicitly say so.

tl;dr don't be like "I kno u wan it" because blurred lines lead to misunderstandings that cause rape, instead just be sure she actually does want it

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sweet. Jesus. This is the worst thread I have ever seen on Atlas. Yes, I'm fairly convinced it's the absolute worst. And that's saying a lot.

Just burn it to the ground. And let the rape apologists die in the ensuing fire.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

[angus]

Like Angus, I can testify that someone inviting someone up for a drink does not always lead to sex and does not have to mean that.

I was thinking about this last night.  One time, long before I was married (I was probably about 30, living in Boston) a couple of friends and I went to a bar--a drinking bar, not a dance club--where one of the guys recognized some women he knew.  One of them is from Italy, a couple of years younger than I, and very attractive.  We went over to them and started chatting them up.  Very soon I was getting on well with the Italian chick.  Soon enough it became clear that we were going home together.  We indicated to our friends that we'd be leaving, and we went on our way.  She said we could go to her place, and the mood was good.  We were swapping spit and rubbing noses all the way back to her place.  She had two roomies, but we only spent about a microsecond getting acquainted with them, after which she led me into her room, closed the door and plopped on the bed.  I had no doubt she wanted me to do her.  She kept putting my hand up there on her beautiful woman breasts during the obligatory tongue-wrestling contest, and giving me the eyes-wide-open "C'mon already.  Is this happening or what?" stare. 

But I wouldn't.  Or I didn't. 

All the way back to her place, on the subway, I started thinking more and more about how I'd hang out for a while but politely refuse.  She was very attractive--pretty face, nice build, smart, and lively--and under most circumstances I'd have been a sporting fellow, but as it turns out I had a huge hemmorhoid on my ass.  It had grown to about the size of my pinkie finger.  I've only had 5 of those in my life, and this was the biggest and most painful one I'd ever had, and because of it I had very little desire to let my pants down.  It would have been awkward and painful at best, and at worst totally freaked her out if the stress caused a bleeding rupture.  No doubt I was thinking that a week or so later, after my embarrassing condition had subsided, I'd instigate a rendezvous with the intention of getting more intimately acquainted with her. 

Eventually, after about an hour in her room, enjoying her company, and unceremoniously changing the subject during her more aggressive advances, I told her that I need to leave, indicating that I'd call her (we had previously exchanged telephone numbers.)  As you might imagine, she never returned my calls.  I don't think I'd have returned them either.  In fact, when I've been in similar situations--having brought a woman to my bed and been rejected at the last minute--I generally don't call back either.  Who needs that frustration?  Who needs the hurt feelings?  Ah, a bigger man would have been honest about the situation.  People develop minor, non-communicable illnesses all the time, after all.  Perhaps she'd have been understanding about it and suggested we wait a week, or that I simply lie back, close my eyes, relax, and receive a thorough undercarriage waxing sure to ease my pain.  Well, I'll never know.  After that episode I become more understanding upon being rejected at the last minute, even so far as to start call the woman a couple of days later to schedule.  In many cases, those follow-up appointments worked out very well. 

Anyway, the point is that I can relate to the person who comes home with someone, even knowing that the person is horny and ready, but with no intention of going all the way.  Probably we all can.  Something similar has happened to you, maybe.  I say this for Mortimer's benefit:  It isn't coy to follow someone home even if you're not determined to have sex with that person.  There are a million reasons why one might not go all the way, and one must realize that it's not necessarily a slight or a tease or a game.