Charlie Rangel, still a moron
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  Charlie Rangel, still a moron
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Author Topic: Charlie Rangel, still a moron  (Read 1383 times)
dead0man
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« on: September 30, 2014, 11:48:49 PM »

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much more insanity at link
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 12:06:52 AM »

At least he's been consistent about it.

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I may not agree, but he certainly has a point.
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dead0man
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 12:38:54 AM »

Consistently stupid and wrong doesn't make for a good point....link-PDF
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We've done this at least 3 times before.  The US military's financial and racial makeup is pretty much the same as the US as a whole... a little more middle class a little more southern.  A little less rich, a little less poor, a little less northeasterners.  But there are plenty of white middle class people in the military, more than average even.  The meme that the US military is full of poor people or "browns" is a strong one, but it's just not true.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 12:58:29 AM »

Reinstating the draft is the stupidest thing I've heard about this war so far, putting it on top of neocon rhetoric and fear-mongering
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 01:45:27 AM »

Well, as a resident of Congressman Rangel's district, let me tell you that the ordinary working Americans down here love the man, and don't care what some prairie libertarian on the internet has to say about him.
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dead0man
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 01:57:44 AM »

I don't care if they care or not, they are obviously morons just like him as they keep voting the corrupt douche back in office.
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Franzl
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 05:37:00 AM »

He has a point in general that the US would probably be more reluctant to fight wars if the average person had to actually fight them. Although practice shows that drafts are never fair and smart (and/or rich) peoole can always get out of them. I played the German system (where conscriptees would never actually do anything but basic training) too until it was abolished a few years ago.

So despite the theoretically sound argument in favor, it doesn't accomplish what it's meant to accomplish, and most militaries don't seem to want people that don't want to be there.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 06:45:10 AM »

He, just like Jesse Jackson were good soldiers in standing with black caucus to get Obama elected. He and Emil Jones were like godfathers to Obama. But all three time is over due to breaking laws.
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dead0man
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 07:33:29 AM »

He has a point in general that the US would probably be more reluctant to fight wars if the average person had to actually fight them.
AGAIN, the military IS a near perfect cross section of the US at large.  It's full of "average" people.
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Franzl
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2014, 07:36:42 AM »

He has a point in general that the US would probably be more reluctant to fight wars if the average person had to actually fight them.
AGAIN, the military IS a near perfect cross section of the US at large.  It's full of "average" people.

Poor wording in my post. I meant to say, if every person could be chosen randomly, as opposed to ensuring one does not fight by simply choosing not to join the military.

But again, I'm not advocating this as it never works.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 07:40:17 AM »

He has a point in general that the US would probably be more reluctant to fight wars if the average person had to actually fight them.
AGAIN, the military IS a near perfect cross section of the US at large.  It's full of "average" people.

I would love to see some data on this reflecting parental household income and educational attainment, and compare it with either party's caucus in Congress. Not many children of congressmen or their donors are enrolling because they need tuition money for college after their service, are they?

How many members of the Romney family go into the service as opposed to a family in, say, rural West Virginia or Pennsylvania?
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 07:42:54 AM »

Well, as a resident of Congressman Rangel's district, let me tell you that the ordinary working Americans down here love the man, and don't care what some prairie libertarian on the internet has to say about him.

They love him because he treats the district well with his seniority. Harlem wouldn't like a draft any more than the rest of the US if the old crank got his way.
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Person Man
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 08:07:01 AM »

He has a point in general that the US would probably be more reluctant to fight wars if the average person had to actually fight them.
AGAIN, the military IS a near perfect cross section of the US at large.  It's full of "average" people.
I'd imagine that if done a right a draft could actually be a good thing. It would certainly make parts of the population that currently don't serve to serve. Maybe this would educate more dovish parts of the population on foreign policy or at least give them a more personal stake and insight. Though I imagine it could simply be skewed because the very poor don't have a basic education and the most educated probably have more opportunities and it might be very competitive to join as a career officer. It would also be interesting to see the proportion of people who are "too sick to fight" are spread out amongst the population. 
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dead0man
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 08:15:52 AM »

One thing to keep in mind, most people (75%) of fighting age aren't able to join for various reasons.  Too dumb or too fat/out of shape are the...ahem...big ones.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 08:32:53 AM »

You still have not found a Democrat or a liberal that can match Republican nonsense, so please keep searching, your quest is entertaining.

His position is quite clear; if you are going to be so anxious to go to war, put yourself or your money on the line.
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2014, 08:39:42 AM »

One thing to keep in mind, most people (75%) of fighting age aren't able to join for various reasons.  Too dumb or too fat/out of shape are the...ahem...big ones.

haha, good find.  that's wonderful news.  I'm pretty out of shape and have a decently long trail of "mental problems", so I might be able to duck the firing line too.
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memphis
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2014, 08:53:57 AM »

Suggesting that the nation ought to pay for a war should it to choose to go to war is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Doing things the George Bush way is what was moronic.
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King
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2014, 09:18:31 AM »

He's right...
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dead0man
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2014, 09:35:40 AM »

You still have not found a Democrat or a liberal that can match Republican nonsense, so please keep searching, your quest is entertaining.
I'm not looking for anything, certainly not balance between the two, as I don't care much for either.  But thanks for reading!
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I'm not particular anxious for war, but I did (and sort of still do) put myself on the line thankyouverymuch.
Suggesting that the nation ought to pay for a war should it to choose to go to war is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Doing things the George Bush way is what was moronic.
Agreed on both counts.Except as has been pointed out several times now, he's not...but whatever, some you guys read only what you want to read.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2014, 09:39:55 AM »

Not at all surprising. He's said this nonsense before. muh draft, muh war tax.
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King
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2014, 09:41:22 AM »

Suggesting that the nation ought to pay for a war should it to choose to go to war is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Doing things the George Bush way is what was moronic.

No, the George Bush way was good. The US charged the Arab states money and froze defense spending in Europe and Africa to pay for the first Gulf War as part of his PAYGO plan.

The George W. Bush way was moronic.
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King
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2014, 09:47:35 AM »

AGAIN, the military IS a near perfect cross section of the US at large.  It's full of "average" people.

No it's not. It IS poorer, more religious, more white, more male, and slightly shorter than the population at large, especially the 18-29 population at large. It is far from average. Your comparing it for averages of everyone, but only the youth are military eligible.

One thing to keep in mind, most people (75%) of fighting age aren't able to join for various reasons.  Too dumb or too fat/out of shape are the...ahem...big ones.

So, then you agree we need to shake Americans out of war apathy, which is what Rangel is saying?
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dead0man
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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2014, 10:34:20 AM »

It's not cite
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Probably, but I'm not finding proof one way or the other.  It's certainly not as religious as non-religious non-military people seem to think it is.
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slightly so, but if you'll note, Rangel was claiming it wasn't white enough for him
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obviously
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odd....cite?
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So, then you agree we need to shake Americans out of war apathy, which is what Rangel is saying?
[/quote]sure?  But is the draft the best way to do that?  Nobody involved wants it.
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King
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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2014, 11:45:25 AM »

National average male height is estimated at 5'10" for whites, 5'10 1/2" for blacks while this powerpoint slide from soc.mil says average Army ranger is 5'9"--who knows if that can be a trusted statistic, but that's all I can find.

My common sense would think very lanky people 6'4"+ would struggle with obstacle courses and not make it out of basic training or even sign up, driving down their average.
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memphis
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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2014, 11:48:40 AM »

Do the pro-draft people think that the military wants conscripts? Are they willing to embrace slavery and simultaneous reduce our military capabilities all in the name of "fairness"? Fitness issues among candidates could be are are currently weeded out pretty easily, but it doesn't take a military expert to see that people who have self-selected for service are going to do the job better. Short of absolutely monstrous war, like WWII, when the government needs absolutely as many bodies in theater as possible, conscription is the worst possible way to assemble an effective force.
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