what should be the burden of proof for campus justice system sexual assaults? (user search)
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  what should be the burden of proof for campus justice system sexual assaults? (search mode)
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Question: what should be the burden of proof for campus justice system sexual assaults?
#1
preponderance of the evidence
 
#2
beyond a reasonable doubt
 
#3
other (explain)
 
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Total Voters: 48

Author Topic: what should be the burden of proof for campus justice system sexual assaults?  (Read 2571 times)
© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« on: October 01, 2014, 08:47:48 AM »

what should be the burden of proof for campus justice system sexual assaults?
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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Posts: 36,562
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 10:44:36 AM »

  Schools shouldn't be investigating, putting on trials and punishing rapists.  The entire system is stupid beyond words.  Honestly, it was kind of shocking to me when I learned that's how a lot of Unis do things.

Universities shouldn't be allowed to do this.

how should universities go about 'punishing' students then?  obviously they don't conduct trials in the sense of being able to incarcerate anyone or award money from one party to another, but only to suspend or expel or make the accused go to counseling.
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 04:13:33 PM »

If the potential rapist is tried in a real court and found guilty, kick him out.  If me or someone I loved got raped and the only people punishing the bastard was the school I'm going to be super pissed.  Again, it's beyond stupid that schools do this.  It's fine for things like cheating, maybe even fighting (I'd still rather that get taken care of in a real courtroom), but for serious crimes, it's stupid.

I more or less agree with this.  the problem is that pressure gets placed on institutions other than the state to take action.  see the NFL and Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson: while the state doesn't view these people as too dangerous to be incarcerated, people view the fact that they're allowed (or were allowed) to participate as evidence of the NFL's lack of moral standard.

Bacon King brings up the counter-point:

Okay, organizations with independent executive authority like marching band can basically determine their own membership standards as much as they want, right?
...
For smaller groups dealing with these problems internally, fairness isn't really so relevant. It's about the reputation and integrity of the organization,

at its most basic level, this is one of the problems with a heavily privatized society.  power to mess with lives gets placed in Roger Goodell's hands, or the marching band exec's hands, or with the university professor.  at one level, since they act on behalf of private organizations, they can do whatever they want, fairness be damned... yet somehow, we know this isn't the whole story, that private orgs owe something to the public interest, owing to their social function.

public relations is degenerated democracy.  we have these organizations that are crucial to the wider society -- universities and professional football -- that are designed as hierarchical, essentially totalitarian private dictatorships.  yet we demand that they uphold basic standards of "decency" and cry foul when they don't.
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
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Posts: 36,562
United States


« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 11:52:58 PM »

Does the difference in severity between locking a guy up for 20 years, and expelling him from a school, or a marching band, make no difference at all in our willingness to apply remedies?

the standard of proof necessary does not change based on the potential consequences to the accused.  both misdemeanor pot possession and murder call for the same standard of proof in the criminal system.

but, ultimately, it's a silly debate, because it's all about where our sympathies lie.   I'd like to see private power used to further the rights of the accused and due process rights of employees, you might want to see it used to punish individuals who "more likely than not" are rapists.  and the undemocratic institutions, set up for the express purpose of profit, will take the course of action that will be best for their bottom line. degenerated democracy.
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