White mother sues sperm bank for reparations for her black child

[Cory]

How is it even legal to ask for sperm from a particular racial group? That's clearly discrimination.

It really doesn't get more out of touch than this. You just can't be serious.

If you were a white guy in America would you want to be walking around with your (also white) wife with a half-black kid? Knowing that everybody who walks by is thinking "Lol, he got suckered into raising some black guy's kid after she cheated on him and got knocked up."?

You just aren't living in real life if you think this isn't a thing. Just because you think something shouldn't matter is irrelevant to the fact that is does matter. Human beings aren't perfect and not everywhere is a liberal college campus.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yeah that was an insanely ignorant comment from Antonio. Plus you can also make requests based on things like height, hair color, eye color, etc. Is that discrimination? You seriously think artificial insemination works by a woman just making the request and the bank just uses some random donor's sperm? I guarantee that's not how it works in France either...or anywhere.

Incidentally there was also a movie made about this situation albeit with the races reversed. 20 years ago. And quite uncontroversial even at the time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_America_(1993_film)

[dead0man]

How is it even legal to ask for sperm from a particular racial group? That's clearly discrimination.

It really doesn't get more out of touch than this. You just can't be serious.

If you were a white guy in America would you want to be walking around with your (also white) wife with a half-black kid? Knowing that everybody who walks by is thinking "Lol, he got suckered into raising some black guy's kid after she cheated on him and got knocked up."?

You just aren't living in real life if you think this isn't a thing. Just because you think something shouldn't matter is irrelevant to the fact that is does matter. Human beings aren't perfect and not everywhere is a liberal college campus.

He probably wasn't, but maybe Tony was joking?  Man I hope so.....


Anyway, I'm a white (duh), married to a white....and have 2 fairly brown step daughters.  It's confused a lot of people.  They see me with the kids and they assume I've got a brown wife.  They see the wife with the kids and they think she's got a brown husband....they see us together and they are just confused.  It doesn't help that their last name is different from everybody else.  I hope nobody thinks I've been cuckholded, but I'm sure it's happened.

[AggregateDemand]

You are arguing that as a matter of law, sperm banks fundamentally cannot assume a legal duty to deliver the specific sperm that is requested and paid for by the client, even when the sperm bank enters into a contract stating "In return for money, we promise to give the customer sperm from donor X." Why would that be?

Because the contract appears to be unenforceable, as I've opined in several posts. The donor is not required to provide DNA samples after the fact, nor does the court have legal grounds to subpoena DNA samples on behalf of the plaintiff, imo. Visual inspection is not particularly strong evidence in this kind of case.

I'm not interested in trying to legislate moral edicts. I'm more interested in seeing the industry undermined by legal precedent, especially as it expands into eugenics. It won't happen unless people file a frivolous eugenics lawsuits that go to trial. This couple is claiming injury because their child is part African American. I hope the courts get a chance to shut this trial down, and set precedent that undermines the eugenics industry.

[Indy Texas]

How is it even legal to ask for sperm from a particular racial group? That's clearly discrimination.

It really doesn't get more out of touch than this. You just can't be serious.

If you were a white guy in America would you want to be walking around with your (also white) wife with a half-black kid? Knowing that everybody who walks by is thinking "Lol, he got suckered into raising some black guy's kid after she cheated on him and got knocked up."?

You just aren't living in real life if you think this isn't a thing. Just because you think something shouldn't matter is irrelevant to the fact that is does matter. Human beings aren't perfect and not everywhere is a liberal college campus.

As much as I value our European members, I do wish they would refrain from commenting on race-related matters, because (1) they don't live here and don't understand the racial dynamics at play, and (2) they are often guilty of their own regressive attitudes on race that their relatively homogenous societies insulate them from (the decision to put Brad Pitt on the poster for 12 Years a Slave in Italy because Italian moviegoers reacted poorly to posters depicting its black main character; the Dutch refusal to stop dressing up in blackface at Christmastime).

[politicus]

Yeah that was an insanely ignorant comment from Antonio. Plus you can also make requests based on things like height, hair color, eye color, etc. Is that discrimination? You seriously think artificial insemination works by a woman just making the request and the bank just uses some random donor's sperm? I guarantee that's not how it works in France either...or anywhere.

Even in countries with tough regulations of info about sperm donors (so no "I want sperm from a 140+ IQ musician with modelling experience" or whatever), race is part of the "basic profile" you get. The Danish rules are: height, weight, eye- and hair colour and race. Wanting a child that looks somewhat similar to you (or at least within the ball park) is natural.

Take height as an example, if everybody in the family are very tall and you get sperm from a very small man the kid could end up looking totally out of place as a dwarf among giants. Nobody wants that.

As a curiosity I can tell that Danish sperm banks have had a surplus of "produce" for many years and they can't export it to Southern Europe where there is a donor shortage because parents down there don't want their child to get a "Nordic look". So it's not just between races Tony. French and Italian women don't want Scandinavian donors either.

[angus]

I hope nobody thinks I've been cuckholded, but I'm sure it's happened.

Pretty much what we're all thinking.

I always felt a little freakish around my immediate family as well.  I have blue eyes and light pink skin and yellow hair.  Well, it's getting pretty white by now, but generally still more yellow than white.  My father, brother, sister, and mother all have have brown eyes and brown hair, although my mother has very light skin.  In my extended family (cousins, etc.) there are blondes, but not in my nuclear family.  As a child I wondered if people thought that I didn't belong, or that they found me somewhere and took me with them.  Probably this girl in the story will go through something like that.  I got over it eventually.  If her mother doesn't traumatize her, then this girl will as well.

This woman has a right to certain expectations.  (I married a very intelligent and well educated woman for a reason:  sons get their smarts from the mother, not from the father; I didn't actually know that till I was older, but I always instinctively was attracted to the smartest girl in the class growing up.)  The woman in the article signed a contract and the company did not keep up its end of the deal.  It'd be as if Johnny played a better fiddle than the devil, and one of the little imps mistakenly laid a pewter fiddle at his feet when the contest was over.  oops, sorry about that.  This is actually worse, because the composition of the fiddle can be changed whereas the child's genetic makeup is immutable.  The woman has a right to be angry with them.  She doesn't have to be such a dick about it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How is it even legal to ask for sperm from a particular racial group? That's clearly discrimination.

It really doesn't get more out of touch than this. You just can't be serious.

If you were a white guy in America would you want to be walking around with your (also white) wife with a half-black kid? Knowing that everybody who walks by is thinking "Lol, he got suckered into raising some black guy's kid after she cheated on him and got knocked up."?

You just aren't living in real life if you think this isn't a thing. Just because you think something shouldn't matter is irrelevant to the fact that is does matter. Human beings aren't perfect and not everywhere is a liberal college campus.

As much as I value our European members, I do wish they would refrain from commenting on race-related matters, because (1) they don't live here and don't understand the racial dynamics at play, and (2) they are often guilty of their own regressive attitudes on race that their relatively homogenous societies insulate them from (the decision to put Brad Pitt on the poster for 12 Years a Slave in Italy because Italian moviegoers reacted poorly to posters depicting its black main character; the Dutch refusal to stop dressing up in blackface at Christmastime).

Actually as politicus pointed out, this isn't really a European thing. In fact it appears that the requests a woman can make in Europe are even more specific than in the US including where Tony is from.

Also I think Tony doesn't understand discrimination laws. They basically allow for lawsuits with a direct victim. If a business refuses to hire anyone except people of a certain race, then someone qualified who wasn't hired can sue for discrimination. If an apartment refuses to rent to anyone but a certain race, then anyone denied a rent can sue. But who is the victim if a woman requests only a certain race for a donor? The donors excluded? Well seeing as how they were already paid, and aren't even told what their sperm is being used for and will never know what kids are there's and the mother's identity, then yeah, no victim.

[traininthedistance]

The woman has a right to be angry with them.  She doesn't have to be such a dick about it.

Yes, exactly this.  Bit of a fine line to walk, but also the only decent line to walk.

[SteveRogers]

The woman has a right to be angry with them.  She doesn't have to be such a dick about it.

Yes, exactly this.  Bit of a fine line to walk, but also the only decent line to walk.

Guys, it's not clear at all that she's "being a dick about it." Isn't it possible that the media is cherry-picking statements from the mother's statements and court documents that emphasize the racial aspect of this while giving short shrift the actual legal arguments being advanced? The media's reporting on court cases tends to be all around garbage. 

[angus]

I suppose that it is possible.  Sensationalism sells.  I shouldn't judge her so harshly till I walk a mile in her moccasins, but it seems to me that a child who learns that her mother was so upset that she sued somebody because the child was too dark is going to grow up to be an adult with a serious inferiority complex. 

There's also the possibility that the woman has learned a valuable lesson that many consumers learn:  cut out the middle man.  Next time she'll take out an ad on Craig List and oversee it directly.  "Blonde, blue-eyed, tall, male, musician/supermodel wanted for insemination of lesbian.  Twenty thousand dollars for successful impregnation.  Payment upon positive pregnancy test.  Serious inquiries only."

[IndividualLiberty]

Seems to be more of a contract issue than an issue of racism. Did this couple "order" a child of a specific race/gender etc? If the company didn't follow through with the contract as far as I'm concerned they are liable in reimbursing damages to the couple.

[angus]

If the company didn't follow through with the contract as far as I'm concerned they are liable in reimbursing damages to the couple.

hate it when that happens. 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

How is it even legal to ask for sperm from a particular racial group? That's clearly discrimination.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Seems to be more of a contract issue than an issue of racism. Did this couple "order" a child of a specific race/gender etc? If the company didn't follow through with the contract as far as I'm concerned they are liable in reimbursing damages to the couple.

"Son, we love you just the way you are. After all, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten this money from when the lab messed you up."

[Sol]

Whether or not it's legal to ask for a sperm from a specific race is besides the point. It's clearly immoral to have race as an option.

[Cory]

Whether or not it's legal to ask for a sperm from a specific race is besides the point. It's clearly immoral to have race as an option.

No it isn't. Don't be silly. People want kids that look like them typically speaking. This way you can imply that it's "yours" to other people.

[Deus Naturae]

Whether or not it's legal to ask for a sperm from a specific race is besides the point. It's clearly immoral to have race as an option.

Why? I wouldn't say it's immoral for a woman to be able to decide whose sperm goes into her body, regardless of the factors she bases that decision on.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the kid's race will impact him/her as well as the mother. Unless you really don't want your kid to be white for whatever reason, there's no reason not to opt for a white guy's sperm if you live in a racist town.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Whether or not it's legal to ask for a sperm from a specific race is besides the point. It's clearly immoral to have race as an option.

There's plenty of non-controversial requests for traits people can make, many of which are tied to race (height, hair color, skin tone, etc.) Is that immoral?

[IndividualLiberty]

Seems to be more of a contract issue than an issue of racism. Did this couple "order" a child of a specific race/gender etc? If the company didn't follow through with the contract as far as I'm concerned they are liable in reimbursing damages to the couple.

"Son, we love you just the way you are. After all, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten this money from when the lab messed you up."

It's sad but that's the world we live in.

[traininthedistance]

The woman has a right to be angry with them.  She doesn't have to be such a dick about it.

Yes, exactly this.  Bit of a fine line to walk, but also the only decent line to walk.

Guys, it's not clear at all that she's "being a dick about it." Isn't it possible that the media is cherry-picking statements from the mother's statements and court documents that emphasize the racial aspect of this while giving short shrift the actual legal arguments being advanced? The media's reporting on court cases tends to be all around garbage. 

I first heard about this from an college classmate on Facebook who is a lawyer and has actually read the complaint.  She says that the media is being too kind to the plaintiff, and when you dig deeper it's actually more racist.  And of course that this is not to excuse the clinic's epic f**kup, or to say that there aren't legal arguments that could and should be made- just that the ones that are being made are super racist above all.

I'm inclined to trust her expertise on this matter.

[Brittain33]

The race mistake is a big deal IMO because the child is obviously gonna be curious about that, and that will probably force her parents to tell her where she came from before she's old enough to handle it

Do you really think that the most salient childhood epiphany regarding her parents, once she starts to meet other parents, will be that they're both white?

angus, consider that lesbians and same-sex couples raising children usually are friends with or actively seek out other same-sex couples who are parenting. The girl is going to grow up naturally understanding that families can have 2 moms, 2 dads, or 1 of each. I have several male friends who are parenting and they all socialize their children together.

[angus]

...The girl is going to grow up naturally understanding that families can have 2 moms, 2 dads, or 1 of each...

My weak attempt at humor failed.

I still think that she's a bigot, and, more importantly, potentially damaging the child's self esteem by acting upon this so forcefully.  It seems odd for a parent to place so much priority on matters other than the child's well-being.  Nevertheless it is her right to seek damages.

[ingemann]

Shouldn't the fact that the mother is a racist mean that the girl deserve a compensation even more?

[Deus Naturae]

Shouldn't the fact that the mother is a racist mean that the girl deserve a compensation even more?

Why do you believe the mother is racist?