Amendment to the Fair De-Registration Rights Act (Failed)
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  Amendment to the Fair De-Registration Rights Act (Failed)
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Author Topic: Amendment to the Fair De-Registration Rights Act (Failed)  (Read 1683 times)
Lumine
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« on: October 05, 2014, 10:17:27 PM »
« edited: October 30, 2014, 06:21:06 PM by President-Elect Lumine »

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Senator Bore, as sponsor you have 24 hours to make your case for this bill.
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bore
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 10:32:38 AM »

Sorry I didn't make it clear in the introduction thread: the bill is this
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Anyway, this is fairly self explanatory. The truth is, like with I'm leaving threads, no one who deregisters stays deregistered. Actions should have consequences, and the 60 days time limit is not a real consequence.
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Lumine
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 06:22:11 PM »

I understand the impulse considering so many recent deregistrations which ended up in those who left returning rather soon, but given that most deregistrations come out rather suddenly we might lose a lot of officeholders due to rash decisions for a longer period of time (Maxwell would have had to return much later, SirNick would still have three months left, and so forth).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 06:26:14 PM »

Deregistration was a mistake in my view.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 10:34:30 PM »

Why are there any restrictions on reregistration? If someone just wants to take a break from Atlasia, it makes sense to deregister just so they can avoid Atlasia-related PM's. I see no reason why they should have to face any consequences for taking a short break.
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bore
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 05:24:13 AM »

Look, I like and admire Maxwell and sirnick and many other atlasians who have deregistered, and I'm very glad they returned. But the fact they returned so quickly suggests they didn't want to leave the game so much as make a statement.

I would not mind deregistration if it was something people who register, then find themselves bombarded with PMs, then find they don't like the game did. But it's not. There have been almost no incidences where that has happened. The only people who deregister are those who play a very active part in the game, and then go on playing an active part in the game after deregistration, and then reregister shortly after.

Frankly I agree with yankee and would rather repeal the whole thing, but if we're going to keep it with the extra work for the RG it entails, we may as well give it some teeth.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 06:03:35 PM »

PMs can be deleted and I have said for years we would regret catering to the disgruntly PMed in the one or two instances per year this comes up, if that.
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Lumine
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 09:35:43 PM »

Hmmmm... Well, that does make sense to me, it would probably halt some deregistrations if the penalty involved was as high as six months. This will have my support.
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bore
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 07:46:59 AM »

Just to gauge support, would people be more amenable to scrapping deregistration entirely?
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 04:55:23 PM »

Just to gauge support, would people be more amenable to scrapping deregistration entirely?

I've never understood the argument against de-registration. It just strikes me as some weird paternalistic "we need to protect people from themselves!" position. The current system doesn't forcibly remove people from the game against their will. The power has been used sparingly and it's a conscious decision that person is making for themselves. You would just be taking away an option.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2014, 06:08:13 PM »

Just to gauge support, would people be more amenable to scrapping deregistration entirely?

I've never understood the argument against de-registration. It just strikes me as some weird paternalistic "we need to protect people from themselves!" position.

And how is deregistration not doing just that? Is says that people are so incapable of hitting the delete button they have to be given a gov't sanctioned process to lock themselves out for a set period of time, during which most wish they could return sooner. Most all have returned and only one has not too my knowledge.

I would support fully eliminating the process.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2014, 07:14:36 PM »

Why should voter roll present stop someone from leaving?
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 08:00:43 PM »

The issue is not only that someone wants to lock themselves out of the game. They may simply want to not be bothered by Atlasia-related PM's and the like.

Again, I fail to see any negatives to maintaining the option of deregistration. Yes, there are people who deregister and then reregister soon afterward. So what? What negative impact is that having on the game?
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bore
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 07:37:21 AM »

The issue is not only that someone wants to lock themselves out of the game. They may simply want to not be bothered by Atlasia-related PM's and the like.

Again, I fail to see any negatives to maintaining the option of deregistration. Yes, there are people who deregister and then reregister soon afterward. So what? What negative impact is that having on the game?

The current system means unnecessary work for the RG, and it also sends out the message that actions don't have consequences. If deregstration was used by people who are tired of recieving PMs then I wouldn't mind keeping it. But, certainly in my time, that has never happened. People who deregister after recieving a few PMs are an almost mythical species.

What we have now is the worst of both worlds, it provides unneccesary work for the RG and is too short a time to seriously deter people. If we abolished it we'd free up the RG, if we increased the penalty it would give the act a consequence.
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Lumine
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 11:00:18 PM »

Bump!
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Fritz
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 02:00:04 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2014, 02:15:32 AM by RG Fritz »

Nobody has asked for my opinion of this.  Why is that?

I see no reason for making any change.  There was a time when de-registration was not allowed, and of course there was a battle in the senate to pass a bill permitting it.  My opinion is, de-registration absolutely should be allowed, as it removes some clutter from the rolls of people who intend to be inactive.  There must be some time limit before returning, or else the whole concept of de-registering is pretty meaningless.  Making de-registration a permanent thing would block potentially active members from contributing, and would hurt the game overall.  Extending the time limit to 6 months would, again, block potentially active members from contributing, at least for an additional 4 months, which would be harmful to the game.  The 60 day rule seems to me to be an appropriate length of time.  I therefore oppose this bill, but will abide by it if passed.

As for my workload, I honestly think I have the easiest job in Atlasia, and I will keep it as long as Presidents let me.  Cheesy  Seriously, though, the proposed bill would actually increase my workload, not reduce it. 
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bore
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 11:25:22 AM »

I definitely don't think that increasing the time limit entails less work for the RG and I've said as much earlier. It would though provide a serious consequence to people who deregister, where at the moment it's not really that serious.

If there was any evidence that even some people who deregistered were people who were planning to fade into inactivity and never come back then that would be one thing, but I don't think that's ever actually happened. The only people who deregister are those who are going to participate again almost straight away.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2014, 08:14:43 PM »

I definitely don't think that increasing the time limit entails less work for the RG and I've said as much earlier. It would though provide a serious consequence to people who deregister, where at the moment it's not really that serious.

If there was any evidence that even some people who deregistered were people who were planning to fade into inactivity and never come back then that would be one thing, but I don't think that's ever actually happened. The only people who deregister are those who are going to participate again almost straight away.
Again, what is the downside of people deregistering and returning soon afterward? You previously claimed it overburdens the RG but Fritz has denied that so I see no actual negative impacts of deregisteration.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 08:18:10 PM »

Nobody has asked for my opinion of this.  Why is that?

I see no reason for making any change.  There was a time when de-registration was not allowed, and of course there was a battle in the senate to pass a bill permitting it.  My opinion is, de-registration absolutely should be allowed, as it removes some clutter from the rolls of people who intend to be inactive.  There must be some time limit before returning, or else the whole concept of de-registering is pretty meaningless.  Making de-registration a permanent thing would block potentially active members from contributing, and would hurt the game overall.  Extending the time limit to 6 months would, again, block potentially active members from contributing, at least for an additional 4 months, which would be harmful to the game.  The 60 day rule seems to me to be an appropriate length of time.  I therefore oppose this bill, but will abide by it if passed.

As for my workload, I honestly think I have the easiest job in Atlasia, and I will keep it as long as Presidents let me.  Cheesy  Seriously, though, the proposed bill would actually increase my workload, not reduce it. 

Well, the person whose views are most important in this matter have been heard. I personally have issues with people who have hissy-fits then de-register, then decide that they've changed their minds. But that's probably not something that requires this level of action.

I wouldn't mind the inclusion of a 24-hour cooling-off period, where they can withdraw registration actions within 24 hours without penalty.
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bore
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2014, 12:07:16 PM »

I definitely don't think that increasing the time limit entails less work for the RG and I've said as much earlier. It would though provide a serious consequence to people who deregister, where at the moment it's not really that serious.

If there was any evidence that even some people who deregistered were people who were planning to fade into inactivity and never come back then that would be one thing, but I don't think that's ever actually happened. The only people who deregister are those who are going to participate again almost straight away.
Again, what is the downside of people deregistering and returning soon afterward? You previously claimed it overburdens the RG but Fritz has denied that so I see no actual negative impacts of deregisteration.

Now that's just not true.

I said a deregistration system is more work having no such system. I claimed the advantage to abolishing deregistration would be it would lighten the RG's workload.

I claimed the advantage to increasing the time limit is it means the act of deregistering has a consequence, and I never said anything about Fritz's workload here. Now most of us, including fritz agree there should be some consequence to deregistering, the question at the moment before us is whether the current consequence is enough.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2014, 01:53:27 PM »

Actions have to have consequences. I don't know if I agree with the six month limit, but I agree with Senator bore that if someone is really just making an unhappy statement, then they should have to stick by it for a certain amount of time.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2014, 10:47:15 PM »

I definitely don't think that increasing the time limit entails less work for the RG and I've said as much earlier. It would though provide a serious consequence to people who deregister, where at the moment it's not really that serious.

If there was any evidence that even some people who deregistered were people who were planning to fade into inactivity and never come back then that would be one thing, but I don't think that's ever actually happened. The only people who deregister are those who are going to participate again almost straight away.
Again, what is the downside of people deregistering and returning soon afterward? You previously claimed it overburdens the RG but Fritz has denied that so I see no actual negative impacts of deregisteration.

Now that's just not true.

I said a deregistration system is more work having no such system. I claimed the advantage to abolishing deregistration would be it would lighten the RG's workload.

I claimed the advantage to increasing the time limit is it means the act of deregistering has a consequence, and I never said anything about Fritz's workload here. Now most of us, including fritz agree there should be some consequence to deregistering, the question at the moment before us is whether the current consequence is enough.
Why should there be a consequence for deregistering?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 07:36:27 PM »

Why do you need a special process to depart from the game? That is the question you should be asking, Deus. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2014, 11:39:22 PM »

um, hello, is it me your looking for?...I can see it in your eyes...


Sorry, the music moved me. Good thing it wasn't "Dancing on the Ceiling". Wink
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Lumine
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2014, 03:47:57 PM »

Bump! Should we go for a final vote?
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