The Ebola Thread (US Domestic)

[angus]

It was good for Smith to say this.  It took me a while to warm up to him (and Cooper Anderson, a very similar style).  Those who like to feign empathy while wading around in T-shirts in the New Orleans muck after Hurricane Katrina strike me as ratings-hogs.  Eventually, I became that Smith and Anderson were on the level.  I still don't like their reporting style, but I've gotten used to it.  Anyway, this was wise and responsible journalism.  Good for him.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

RIP OBAMA

It's all his fault.

[Bacon King]

Presidential address on Ebola

[Alcon]

I don't really see why people are treating the Texas Presbyterian cases like game-changers.  We know this version of Ebola well.  In West Africa, it infects an average of 1.5-2 people per case.  The fact that, in one instance, it's infected 2 people in America doesn't tell us that it's somehow more virulent than we expected, or that it's somehow immune to hazmat suits.  That's dumb.  It tells us two things:

1. Medical interventions that involve lots of healthcare workers having contact with a highly infectious patient are a bad idea.  (Leaving someone to die alone is obviously inhumane, but there's a middle-ground between that and repeated exposure by a ton of people.)

2. Some people will likely get sick accidentally and die, because even though it's not a highly contagious disease, it's a highly infectious one.  (But it's not a highly contagious disease, so we should stop freaking out about the U.S.)

Travel bans are going to be mostly pointless too, since direct flights from West Africa barely exist.

[traininthedistance]

Of course we should institute a travel ban on majorly affected nations. Anybody who's even so much as played Pandemic knows this is the first step. I have yet to hear a serious argument as to why we shouldn't. We now have multiple Ebola cases in America explicitly because of our refusal to take this necessary step.

Containment is the first step to resolving this.

Of course.  Design decisions made in the service of having a playable board game with simple and engaging mechanics should totally be taken as expert advice from actual epidemiologists.  Makes perfect sense. 

This is the same principle by which Risk proved that control of Australia is the most important step towards control of the world; or, to get even nerdier, how Twilight Struggle proved that domino theory was correct*.

*never mind that the designer of Twilight Struggle was forthright about how it was adopted for the purpose of gameplay (or at best a window into the minds of people who actually believed it) rather than perfect historical verisimilitude...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yet another overreaction, this time here in South Carolina.

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[Cubby]

Will there be public pressure on CDC director Thomas Frieden to resign now?

I think he should, he blamed that poor nurse for her own infection, and still says that lie about "only direct contact with bodily fluids" leads to infection, when that's clearly not the case. He's been very weak on this whole debacle.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/16/opinion/vox-frieden-should-resign/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

[emailking]

and still says that lie about "only direct contact with bodily fluids" leads to infection, when that's clearly not the case.

That's not a lie.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

and still says that lie about "only direct contact with bodily fluids" leads to infection, when that's clearly not the case.

oh my god. thank god you're not a doctor.

[Cory]

Of course.  Design decisions made in the service of having a playable board game with simple and engaging mechanics should totally be taken as expert advice from actual epidemiologists.  Makes perfect sense. 

This is the same principle by which Risk proved that control of Australia is the most important step towards control of the world; or, to get even nerdier, how Twilight Struggle proved that domino theory was correct.

A.) That's not my point and you know it. I also noticed you still haven't actually pointed out why such a ban is a bad idea.

B.) I wasn't talking about the board game. I was talking about the computer version, it's similar but you play as the virus and try to kill as many as possible.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

A.) That's not my point and you know it. I also noticed you still haven't actually pointed out why such a ban is a bad idea.

Enforcing it would be a horrible waste of resources.  It's not as if people from there would never consider coming here if we cancel the direct flights, so for a travel ban to be have any effectiveness, we'd need to do background checks on every passenger arriving here on any flight.

It won't accomplish its intended purpose.

Indeed, by making it more difficult to get assistance to West Africa where we need to send it if we're to get Ebola back under control, a total travel ban actually makes it more likely we'll get additional cases in the US.

[Mr. Morden]

Impose a travel ban on those countries, and people would just go through a third country and lie about where they're coming from.  Thus we'd get more cases where people who should be monitored for having traveled there slip through the cracks, and risk infecting others.

[angus]

Ebola hazmat costumes!  Just in time for Halloween, boys and girls.

[Cory]

Enforcing it would be a horrible waste of resources.  It's not as if people from there would never consider coming here if we cancel the direct flights, so for a travel ban to be have any effectiveness, we'd need to do background checks on every passenger arriving here on any flight.

On any international flight. But although I will admit it's expensive, you know what they say "desperate times" and such.

It won't accomplish its intended purpose.

Indeed, by making it more difficult to get assistance to West Africa where we need to send it if we're to get Ebola back under control, a total travel ban actually makes it more likely we'll get additional cases in the US.

It's already been over that isn't what people are talking about. It's about limiting commercial travel. It obviously wouldn't apply to health workers/government.

Impose a travel ban on those countries, and people would just go through a third country and lie about where they're coming from.  Thus we'd get more cases where people who should be monitored for having traveled there slip through the cracks, and risk infecting others.

This is on it's way to being a Point Refuted A Thousand Times. They have this thing called a Passport. It's not as simple about just bullsh**ting about where you're from.

[traininthedistance]

Of course.  Design decisions made in the service of having a playable board game with simple and engaging mechanics should totally be taken as expert advice from actual epidemiologists.  Makes perfect sense. 

This is the same principle by which Risk proved that control of Australia is the most important step towards control of the world; or, to get even nerdier, how Twilight Struggle proved that domino theory was correct.

A.) That's not my point and you know it. I also noticed you still haven't actually pointed out why such a ban is a bad idea.

B.) I wasn't talking about the board game. I was talking about the computer version, it's similar but you play as the virus and try to kill as many as possible.

A: I actually have, just in a different thread.

B: Oh!  That makes so much difference!  My point is demolished!

Good gravy. 

[Cory]

A: I actually have, just in a different thread.

A.) Your first link in that post repeats the Point Refuted A Thousand Times about how "they will just go through Europe!!11!". Because Passports don't exist and everyone is just taken at their word at customs.

B.) Most of the examples of travel bans not working were with diseases that were already here (HIV/AIDS, the flu).

B.) The SARS example was only screenings.

C.) Swine Flue was never really a big deal to begin with and spreads much more easily then Ebola.

D.) The post 9-11 flight ban example is just a total non-sequitur.

B: Oh!  That makes so much difference!  My point is demolished!

Good gravy. 

Again, you know I was just using that as a metaphor and it wasn't a part of my overall point. But don't let that stop you from dishonestly trying to make that the issue to make yourself look more serious or something.

[IceSpear]

So have any pundits jumped the shark and declared Ebola as Obama's Katrina yet?

[Lief 🗽]

So have any pundits jumped the shark and declared Ebola as Obama's Katrina yet?

Yup.

[IceSpear]

So have any pundits jumped the shark and declared Ebola as Obama's Katrina yet?

Yup.

[The Dowager Mod]

And Rwanda just started screening flights from the U.S. LOL.

[politicus]

And Rwanda just started screening flights from the U.S. LOL.

Precious.

[JRP1994]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html

(Edited to fix link.)

[retromike22]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html

(Edited to fix link.)

Abandon ship! Abandon ship! Women and mogs first!

[RI]

Not New York! Now it's a real crisis!

[Grumpier Than Thou]

RIP America