MW: The Midwestern Althing Reform Amendment (Failed)
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  MW: The Midwestern Althing Reform Amendment (Failed)
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Author Topic: MW: The Midwestern Althing Reform Amendment (Failed)  (Read 1662 times)
Senator Cris
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« on: October 15, 2014, 12:16:18 PM »
« edited: November 03, 2014, 09:07:56 AM by Cris »

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Sponsor: Representative GAworth.
No doubt that this is an amendment and so the people of Midwest will vote on this.
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GAworth
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 05:14:11 PM »

Thank you very much Archduke for bringing this amendment to the floor. This will be a referendum that the people of the Midwest will vote upon. I have supported the regionalization of the Althing's seats. This is a simple reform. I look forward to any questions and possible amendments.
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LeBron
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 10:30:13 PM »

I'm also in full support of this amendment, but for Section 3, Part II, I don't think we're able to intrude on a person's right to change districts under federal law, and at the end in Section 5 (or a Section 6) just add a disclaimer that it amends Section II, Part B of the 4th Midwest Constitution.

Everything else looks great though. Districts could make elections more fun and orderly, and I would personally support implementing them, but that will be up to the voters to decide.

I do have an additional idea to add to this that could increase the activity and representation in the Althing. For Section 1, I would recommend we increase the # of Althing seats to 4; adding another Althing seat which in-turn could help give the Archduke/Speaker a little more well-deserved power in breaking ties.

I've gone through the census and there's still a really good way to get 4 districts out of our region:

District 1 - Minnesota - 8
District 2 - Iowa - 7
District 3 - Montana - 3, Wyoming - 1, North Dakota - 1, South Dakota - 1, Manitoba - 1, Alberta (Canada) - 0, Saskatchewan (Canada) - 0, Northwestern Territories (Canada) - 0
District 4 - Colorado - 4, Nebraska - 2, Kansas - 0, Oklahoma - 1

We could always go with 3 to, but what do you guys think?
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GAworth
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 10:56:32 PM »

I'm also in full support of this amendment, but for Section 3, Part II, I don't think we're able to intrude on a person's right to change districts under federal law, and at the end in Section 5 (or a Section 6) just add a disclaimer that it amends Section II, Part B of the 4th Midwest Constitution.

Everything else looks great though. Districts could make elections more fun and orderly, and I would personally support implementing them, but that will be up to the voters to decide.

I do have an additional idea to add to this that could increase the activity and representation in the Althing. For Section 1, I would recommend we increase the # of Althing seats to 4; adding another Althing seat which in-turn could help give the Archduke/Speaker a little more well-deserved power in breaking ties.

I've gone through the census and there's still a really good way to get 4 districts out of our region:

District 1 - Minnesota - 8
District 2 - Iowa - 7
District 3 - Montana - 3, Wyoming - 1, North Dakota - 1, South Dakota - 1, Manitoba - 1, Alberta (Canada) - 0, Saskatchewan (Canada) - 0, Northwestern Territories (Canada) - 0
District 4 - Colorado - 4, Nebraska - 2, Kansas - 0, Oklahoma - 1

We could always go with 3 to, but what do you guys think?

I am always in favor of upping the number of seats to 4. But I fear that we already struggle enough with getting enough people to run for the 3 seats. I am down for the addition of the constitution, when I am more awake tomorrow I will move an amendment if no one else wants does it first.
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GAworth
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 07:30:53 PM »


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This amends the bill for the section it amends. I will leave the discussion of a fourth seat for another amendment.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 07:23:27 AM »

I like the GAworth's amendment, but with 3 members. 4 is too high, IMHO.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2014, 09:46:39 PM »

I really don't think Districts would work well when people can switch between states at ease.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 01:29:55 PM »

I think that we should waiting the new representative that will be appointed by the Governor.
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Vega
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 02:51:14 PM »

I think that we should waiting the new representative that will be appointed by the Governor.

You have that new representative here.

I think that it might be better to eliminate districts, and elect representatives at large, as Gass pointed out. Otherwise, I support the amendment.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 07:45:45 AM »

Anyone has an amendment or we can go with a final vote?
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Vega
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 03:44:25 PM »

Anyone has an amendment or we can go with a final vote?

I'm in favor of going to a final vote.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 09:06:32 AM »

CJO point of clarification:

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Does this require absolute equality?
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GAworth
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 10:43:41 AM »

Pretty much, however, States can only be in one district, so it will not be absolute.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 03:21:27 PM »

I think it would get too complicated to do regional districts for the Althing. How often would we do redistricting? People move around all the time, I could see it getting uneven very fast.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 04:41:17 PM »

Pretty much, however, States can only be in one district, so it will not be absolute.

Well, right.  But right now the way you've formulated the amendment seems to imply that it must be absolute.  "Districts shall be divided evenly"... there's no caveat to that, and no way to calculate what the "closest-to-evenly" division is.

It's also not clear why single-member districts need to be distributed proportionally (PR-STV).
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2014, 02:08:19 PM »

Anyone has an amendment or we can go with a final vote?

If there isn't an amendment, I will open a final vote tomorrow.
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Vega
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2014, 06:13:23 PM »

Anyone has an amendment or we can go with a final vote?

If there isn't an amendment, I will open a final vote tomorrow.

That sounds more than fair.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2014, 06:16:27 AM »

I open a 48-hours vote on the GAworth's amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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This is not the final vote, but the vote on the GAworth's amendment.
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Vega
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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 08:25:40 AM »

Aye
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Gass3268
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 06:48:25 PM »

Aye, but I still have concerns on the final bill. Someone needs to explain to me how and when redistricting would work.
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RR1997
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2014, 11:33:02 AM »

Aye
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2014, 10:16:28 AM »

The amendment has passed, with 3 Ayes.
Now, anyone has an amendment?
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Maxwell
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 12:04:08 PM »

Splitting the Midwest into three districts is a really terrible idea. Let's say 15 voters vote in an election - that means only 5 voters are going to vote in each district. And in most regions, including the Midwest, 15 voters is an optimistic estimate for regional elections. Most of the time it's going to be even less. Do you really want elections with a whole 3 people voting?

As someone who doesn't have the political capital to get rid of districts in my own region, I encourage you to not do the same thing we did in the IDS, especially at such a microscopic level.
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Vega
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2014, 05:26:58 PM »

Districts may have been a poor idea.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2014, 11:41:44 AM »


I'm really starting to think this.

I think that an amendment would not change well the original text. So I think that the better idea is going with a final vote. But if anyone (Representatives or Governor) has an amendment, we can go with this amendment.
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