Houston demands local pastors turn over sermons.

[CatoMinor]

I've been seeing this in the local news a lot the past few days.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/houston-pastor-sermon_n_5992044.html

[NewYorkExpress]

As much as these conservative demagogues should be loathed, this still is wrong.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Yeah, this really isn't okay. Even the gay Mayor said that the original idea wasn't okay. Really indefensible that this was carried out, though.

[Joe Republic]

Sigh, some real fodder for once for these preachers to feed into the Christian persecution complex, and keep those 'donations' rolling in.

[politicus]

Forgive my ignorance, but how is this not unconstitutional?

[memphis]

It's important to remember that in the ongoing struggle for equality and dignity for all, the real victims are five preachers in Houston, Tx

[Holmes]

Will they lose their right to marry? Will they get fired from their place of employment? Will they be put in jail, or stoned to death? Hanged to death? Will their families shun them? Will they get death threats?

I think they'll be ok.

[user12345]

Will they lose their right to marry? Will they get fired from their place of employment? Will they be put in jail, or stoned to death? Hanged to death? Will their families shun them? Will they get death threats?

I think they'll be ok.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Will they lose their right to marry? Will they get fired from their place of employment? Will they be put in jail, or stoned to death? Hanged to death? Will their families shun them? Will they get death threats?

I think they'll be ok.

If this is ok, what's to keep some city council from going after churches that preach gay rights? Or does that not matter either because somewhere something worse is happening?

[AggregateDemand]

From what I can gather, HERO has been panned since the outset. A petition was started against the ordinance, for which enough signatures were gathered for some legal challenge, and the city responded desperately by issuing subpoenas for the sermons, hoping to find damning evidence that would sway the public. Brinksmanship beyond the pale.

Anyway, the gays vs church controversy is stupid. Homosexuality in the ancient world was often for recreation or sexual repression of lower social classes. Condemning that kind of homosexuality is a legitimate belief system, but condemning monogamous people who seem to have a biological predisposition for homosexuality is overkill. Liberals will never accept the former, and evangelicals don't accept the later. Pointless rancor.

[SteveRogers]

From what I can gather, HERO has been panned since the outset. A petition was started against the ordinance, for which enough signatures were gathered for some legal challenge, and the city responded desperately by issuing subpoenas for the sermons, hoping to find damning evidence that would sway the public. Brinksmanship beyond the pale.

I don't think that's quite right. My understanding is that a group of pastors started a petition for a ballot initiative to repeal HERO. They were initially determined by the city to have enough signatures to initiate a referendum, but then on further review enough petition pages were found to have been improperly prepared to cause the petition to fail. The opponents of HERO then filed a lawsuit against the city seeking to restore the ballot referendum on the grounds that the city improperly rejected the petition. Apparently the cases hinges not so much on the signatures themselves, but rather on who prepared and circulated petition pages and how. The city issued the subpoenas to gather evidence relevant to building a history of the petition process. The subpoenas target the communications of Houston pastors because they were the ones rallying petition supporters, organizing the signature drives, training signature collectors, etc. The key thing that the media is failing to communicate is that the HERO opponents, not the city, initiated the lawsuit in question. 

[badgate]

I don't understand. Aren't sermons spoken publicly?

[dead0man]

I don't understand. Aren't sermons spoken publicly?

On the street corner?  Sure.  Inside a church?  No.  Churches can close their doors.  They probably shouldn't, but they legally can.

[memphis]

Will they lose their right to marry? Will they get fired from their place of employment? Will they be put in jail, or stoned to death? Hanged to death? Will their families shun them? Will they get death threats?

I think they'll be ok.

If this is ok, what's to keep some city council from going after churches that preach gay rights? Or does that not matter either because somewhere something worse is happening?

This slippery slope foolishness never makes any sense. If you let the churches preach whatever they want, what's to keep them from inciting a riot and encouraging members to kill the gays? Oh noez

[Torie]

The law has zero chance of being upheld under the 1st amendment, and the pastors I think can rather safely legally speaking just ignore the subpoenas. Just why lawsuits have not yet been filed puzzles me.

[AggregateDemand]

I don't think that's quite right. My understanding is that a group of pastors started a petition for a ballot initiative to repeal HERO. They were initially determined by the city to have enough signatures to initiate a referendum, but then on further review enough petition pages were found to have been improperly prepared to cause the petition to fail. The opponents of HERO then filed a lawsuit against the city seeking to restore the ballot referendum on the grounds that the city improperly rejected the petition. Apparently the cases hinges not so much on the signatures themselves, but rather on who prepared and circulated petition pages and how. The city issued the subpoenas to gather evidence relevant to building a history of the petition process. The subpoenas target the communications of Houston pastors because they were the ones rallying petition supporters, organizing the signature drives, training signature collectors, etc. The key thing that the media is failing to communicate is that the HERO opponents, not the city, initiated the lawsuit in question. 

From the sources I read/heard, determining the source of the lawsuit was not difficult. The hot topic is the motivation of the city officials, and the apparent lack of relation between the pastors' sermons and the legal presentation of the signature pages.

Furthermore, the issue is somewhat ridiculous anyway because these churches do not have a history of violence, nor can their congregations defy anti-discrimination laws in their daily commercial activities. By most accounts, HERO has become openly hostile to the 1st Amendment, which protects the kind of speech and political commentary that we may not want to hear, especially on private property.

[H. Ross Peron]

Sigh, some real fodder for once for these preachers to feed into the Christian persecution complex, and keep those 'donations' rolling in.

[DC Al Fine]

The law has zero chance of being upheld under the 1st amendment, and the pastors I think can rather safely legally speaking just ignore the subpoenas. Just why lawsuits have not yet been filed puzzles me.

What I'd like to know is what fool in Houston freaking Texas decided this request wouldn't cause a ruckus.

[TNF]

What's the problem here? If you're spewing hate speech from the pulpit, and encouraging homophobia and transphobia (and actively using it as a way to oppose a civil rights ordinance), you should lose that platform. We're never going to overcome that kind of bigotry so long as we allow the purveyors of such hatreds to spread that nonsense in public and use it as a tool to divide and set people against one another for their own personal political gain.

Private conversations - yes, I can see where there's an obvious problem snooping there, and I obviously wouldn't support the state coming in and seizing text message records or any of that between two people in private. But if these jerks are using a public forum to encourage hate, they should lose the right to utilize said public forum for that purpose.

[bedstuy]

What exactly happened here?  This article is not the least bit clear.  It's easy to jump to conclusions, but I'm curious what the other side of the story is here.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Holy clickbait Batman!

[CountryClassSF]

What's the problem here? If you're spewing hate speech from the pulpit, and encouraging homophobia and transphobia (and actively using it as a way to oppose a civil rights ordinance), you should lose that platform.

The problem is that policing speech would violate the 1st amendment to the United States Constitution.  The 1st amendment was put in place to protect people from being persecuted for speech others may find offensive.  Your viewpoint not only impedes on their right to free speech, but also free exercise of religion

[SteveRogers]

What exactly happened here?  This article is not the least bit clear.  It's easy to jump to conclusions, but I'm curious what the other side of the story is here.

Well here's the "other side." http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/10/16/3580636/houston-pastors-subpoenas-religious-freedom/

The problem with stories like these is that all the fairly neutral, unbiased mainstream media outlets happen to be absolutely rubbish at covering court cases.

What's the problem here? If you're spewing hate speech from the pulpit, and encouraging homophobia and transphobia (and actively using it as a way to oppose a civil rights ordinance), you should lose that platform. We're never going to overcome that kind of bigotry so long as we allow the purveyors of such hatreds to spread that nonsense in public and use it as a tool to divide and set people against one another for their own personal political gain.

To be clear, the case has nothing to do with taking away the right of preachers to say whatever they want from the pulpit, however hateful or bigoted. The subpoenas aren't even related to enforcing the new law. The subpoenas are to get information about what occurred during the petition process to repeal the law. Sermons are relevant to the lawsuit because the petition drive was largely organized by various pastors.

[© tweed]

does it say which pastors?  I have a friend who actually goes to Voddie Baucham's church.  (though I don't believe that it's located in Houston proper)

[Badger]

Stupid, stupid, stupid move.