The Atlasian Universal Education Bill (Debating)

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think we've got some problems. We have a mix of public and private institutions, so what powers do we have to abolish tuition fees?

Also textbooks, and room and board aren't necessarily set by anything that we can control.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I worry that the consequences of this could be to further stratify the education system.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

What are the economic impacts on public universities by this measures, especially against private institutions?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Putting the question if constitutionality to one side, I agree with Senator Nix.

Guaranteeing access is not the same as guaranteeing attendance. I worry about smaller public universities and the impacts on their bottom lines, which does have an impact on their ability to recruit faculty and support academic, cultural and athletic infrastructure.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

The thing is Senator, I fully support the intent of the Bill.

We need to make sure that every student should have access to University/or equivalent based on academic merit alone.

I'd like to work with you to determine a workable path.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm working on an amendment for this, so I'd like to hold off on the final vote at least until I can get it finished for presentation.

If it's realistic, I'm happy to wait for Senator TNF's amendment.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm very uncomfortable about the virtues of this amendment. We have no idea how much the new tax would actually raise. I'm very wary of the knee-jerk reaction to any funding need is a new tax that people will move heaven and earth to avoid.

Until we get an idea about the funding needs, I'm not comfortable passing this.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

If we're comfortable with running deficit based on this Bill because we have a very small surplus this year, is pretty short-sighted.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

So then we just raise taxes on the rich. What's the problem?

There are severely diminishing returns in that strategy.

The fact is, I won't support a proposal unless a long term funding strategy is in place, because not only is that security necessary but the reality is the real-term costs will increase over time.

This thinking is how you end up with structural deficits, which I know might not be an issue for some, but if it's something that can be avoided with a clear strategy, then we should.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

To bring this back to life, I would like to offer the following amendment, including the things I have already proposed in this thread.

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I added a point for incomes of more than 500k, but I doubt that would make up for more than a billion. So the sum we would need is still twenty billions. Any ideas on how to get them in?

I think still think, some kind of deferred loan scheme, low-no interest, not considered 'credit' and paid back at increments once the graduate is earning $xxxxx. I think you could increase the fees in this and permit students to borrow what they mightn't be able to afford.

I think if you include mandates caps on maximum tuition, to reflect the increased costs of teaching certain subjects, such as science, engineering and medicine.

I would also suggest that the existing student debts are not forgiven, but re-structured to reflect the new loan arrangements I'm proposing.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I don't object - but I will be presenting my amendment on the loan concept tomorrow.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'll vote AYE on the amendment as mine is kind of structured off it.

I should have my amendment up in the next two or three hours.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Apologies all, I've been caught up with some RL stuff, so my plans for getting this up have gone out the window.

It will be some point tomorrow my time.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

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Sorry this has taken so long...

I know it doesn't make anything "free" but I've tried to bring together as many concerns together as possible.

I'll wait to hear from others before offering as formal amendment.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I propose this as an amendment.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'd be content to wait to see the Budget impacts and needs.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I oppose this bill since I don't think everyone should pursue post-secondary education. If higher education is universalized, a college diploma will likely take on the status of a high school diploma and become something nearly everyone is expected to have, which will mean that everyone will have to go to college, even if their could be better spent elsewhere.

I think everyone who wants to go should be able to afford to go, but yes, not everyone is suited or wants to go to college and can better apply their talents in a trade school or some other avenue.

I'm not sure what point is being made here. This Bill does nothing but ensure people who wish to attend tertiary education to be able to do so, regardless of financial situation. This is not universalising college education, it's opening up access for those who qualify academically and wish to go.

We should be doing more, and I will be proposing a Bill shortly, to encourage and support those people interested in undertaking a trade.

I object to Polnut's Amendment. The fees should be determined by the market and not by the government.

Sorry, but you objected after the 36 hours were up, so the amendment has already been adopted.

I was on leave and thus my objection should be considered.

Again, I'm sorry, but that's not how the senate rules work.

How can you have been in the Senate for 3 months and not know the rules by now?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

NAY


There is $X in clause three. Is that suppose to be there?

Crap... I just read that.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Seconded.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I do find it interesting Mr President, that you're concerned about Budget impacts, but you're comfortable in the phasing out of public support to private institutions to take more than three-times longer.

I'm concerned about the status of existing student debt not being addressed, I am well aware that we cannot bind future Senates or Presidents, but something to address the issue of debt would be helpful.

I'd be interested in what my fellow Senators have to say. However, the Bill still addresses the fundamental issues the Bill was designed to address.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE