The Atlasian Universal Education Bill (Debating)

[bore]

I think we've got some problems. We have a mix of public and private institutions, so what powers do we have to abolish tuition fees?

The bill specifies that it applies to public institutions, but that's still a problem. The Senate only has power over the National University System, which was only established two years ago and probably accounts for a negligible share of college students in Atlasia.

We obviously cannot tell the regions that they must abolish tuition at every institution of higher education that they run. In at least a couple of cases, there isn't even much need to for us to do more than the regions are already doing. The Pacific and the Northeast have passed generous tuition assistance policies over the past several years, IIRC.

That doesn't mean that we can't do anything, of course. (See this and this for past examples.)

As in the NE, I wrote the bill that abolished tuition fees as I said. I'd like to see such a policy applied nationally.

We simply do not have the authority to do that.

I'm not entirely sure that we should, but I'm fairly certain that, again due to the way the constitution is written, we do have that authority.

[bore]

I assume nix thinks this would be unconstitutional based on this:

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But that specifically says that the rights of the senate overrule this, and one of those rights is:

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Which I think clearly encompasses abolishing tuition fees.

[bore]

I assume nix thinks this would be unconstitutional based on this:

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But that specifically says that the rights of the senate overrule this, and one of those rights is:

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Which I think clearly encompasses abolishing tuition fees.

That's a tendentious interpretation of the Science and Useful Arts Clause, but fair enough. I'm less worried about passing an unconstitutional bill than I am about passing one that would have devastating effects on Atlasian public education.

Well, yeah. The point I'm making, and the same point I make every time one of these borderline bills comes up is both constitutional and unconstitutional sides have logically waterproof arguments, which is a sure sign there is a problem with the constitution.

[bore]

Sorry about this, I thought it'd had already been processed

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Proposed by Senator Cranberry
Status: Friendly

Senators have 24 hours to object

[bore]

A vote is now open on Cranberry's amendment.

[bore]

Aye

[bore]

The amendment has enough votes to pass, senators have 24 hours to change their votes.

[bore]

The amendment has passed:

Aye: Cynic, Polnut, TNF, windjammer, Bore, Cranberry

Nay: JCL

Not voting: Yankee, Bacon King, Deus

[bore]

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Proposed by: Polnut

Status: Friendly

Senators have 36 hours to object to this amendment

[bore]

Polnut's amendment has been adopted

[bore]

I object to Polnut's Amendment. The fees should be determined by the market and not by the government.

Sorry, but you objected after the 36 hours were up, so the amendment has already been adopted.

[bore]

I object to Polnut's Amendment. The fees should be determined by the market and not by the government.

Sorry, but you objected after the 36 hours were up, so the amendment has already been adopted.

I was on leave and thus my objection should be considered.

Again, I'm sorry, but that's not how the senate rules work.

[bore]

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Senators a final vote is now open on this bill, please vote aye nay or abstain

[bore]

Aye

[bore]

The final vote is halted.

[bore]

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Proposed by: Yankee

Senators have 36 hours to object

[bore]

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Senators a final vote is now open on this bill. Please vote Aye nay or abstain

[bore]

Aye

[bore]

This bill has enough votes to pass, senators have 24 hours to change their votes.

[bore]

By a vote of 5-0 this bill has passed and is sent to the president for executive action

Aye: TNF, Windjammer, Bore, Cranberry, Polnut

Not Voting: Deus, Yankee, JCL, Bacon King

[bore]

Just so we all know what's happening here
 

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Anyway, I largely agree with polnut and cranberry. The redraft is not something I'd have done, but it doesn't fundamentally change the bill to make it something I won't support.

[bore]

Given more than 24 hours have passed without any more comment, along with TNF indicating the redraft is friendly, I'm going to open a vote on it.

Senators a final vote is open on this redraft please vote aye nay or abstain

[bore]

Aye

[bore]

The redraft has enough votes to pass, senators have 24 hours to change their votes

[bore]

The redraft has passed by a vote of 5-0:

Aye: Cranberry, Polnut, Bore, TNF, windjammer

Not voting: Deus, Yankee, Bacon King, JCL