Ideologically, who was more right-wing between these two Presidents?

[hangfan91]

Reagan (1981-1989) or George W. Bush (2001-2009) who was more right-wing in your opinion?

[Mr. Illini]

Reagan was

[TNF]

Bush the Younger.

[Rockefeller GOP]

The truth that no one likes to admit is that neither were that right wing.

Bush talked up a big evangelical game, but I think it's silly to classify someone as right wing because of their religious/cultural views (Jimmy Carter, anyone?).  Bush was rather conservative on social issues like gay marriage (he arguably single handedly MADE this a partisan issue) and abortion, but he was moderate to even liberal on immigration reform, he certainly wasn't a slave to small government or states' rights (which many on this board seem to think is a "conservative" thing) and his compassionate conservatism would be viciously attacked by the Tea Party.

Reagan is seen as this great conservative insurgent, and he really delivered a huge chunk of Southern Whites into the GOP with his emphasis on moral conservatism (no, it wasn't just the ever-growing-in-legend "Southern Strategy") and being strong on national defense (another thing we all just decided at some point was a "conservative" position.  However, he okayed an assault rifle ban, passed immigration reform and raised taxes while in office.

If you're a liberal Democrat, a lot of people are going to seem "right wing" to you who quite simply aren't.

[Mr. Illini]

Bush was rather conservative on social issues like gay marriage (he arguably single handedly MADE this a partisan issue)

Nah, that was primarily Falwell.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Lol....Dub was a moderate, at best.

[TNF]

Lol....Dub was a moderate, at best.

"Moderates" don't typically use international law as toliet paper, or order the torture of detainees.

[Rockefeller GOP]

Lol....Dub was a moderate, at best.

"Moderates" don't typically use international law as toliet paper, or order the torture of detainees.

That's a very fair criticism, but putting those actions on one end of the political spectrum is ridiculous.

[TDAS04]

Dubya. 

[ElectionsGuy]

Reagan. Bush was a social conservative and a neoconservative. But I can't say he was a fiscal, or even an economic conservative without laughing.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Lol....Dub was a moderate, at best.

"Moderates" don't typically use international law as toliet paper, or order the torture of detainees.

That's a very fair criticism, but putting those actions on one end of the political spectrum is ridiculous.

Yes, yes in fact they do. Moderates in fact are the most supportive of a security state.

[Person Man]

Reagan. Bush was a social conservative and a neoconservative. But I can't say he was a fiscal, or even an economic conservative without laughing.

This.

[politicus]

Reagan. Bush was a social conservative and a neoconservative. But I can't say he was a fiscal, or even an economic conservative without laughing.

This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts

[ElectionsGuy]

Reagan. Bush was a social conservative and a neoconservative. But I can't say he was a fiscal, or even an economic conservative without laughing.

This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt#Historical_debt_levels

[politicus]

Reagan. Bush was a social conservative and a neoconservative. But I can't say he was a fiscal, or even an economic conservative without laughing.

This.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt#Historical_debt_levels

So, if you cut taxes and venture into something as expensive as warfare debt will go up. But taxation is a much stronger ideological indicator than debt level, since it directly influences the distribution of wealth. Choosing to finance the Iraq war et al without raising taxes was an ideological decision.

There has always been plenty of right wingers willing to get their countries into debt to finance military costs, its not a useful indicator of a politicians position on the left-right scale.

[Bigby]

Reagan wasn't fully conservative (Honestly, no one is fully partisan in practice if they want to get elected or re-elected.), but he was more of an orthodox conservative than Bush. Dubya amped up the social conservatism while not being that orthodox on Republican economics. He reminds me of Rick Santorum in that regard.

[Deus Naturae]

So, if you cut taxes and venture into something as expensive as warfare debt will go up. But taxation is a much stronger ideological indicator than debt level, since it directly influences the distribution of wealth. Choosing to finance the Iraq war et al without raising taxes was an ideological decision.

There has always been plenty of right wingers willing to get their countries into debt to finance military costs, its not a useful indicator of a politicians position on the left-right scale.

Non-Defense spending also increased significantly under Bush, and he enacted a ton of new spending initiatives, such as Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, and a record number of subsidy programs. Clearly he was not a fiscal conservative.

[politicus]

So, if you cut taxes and venture into something as expensive as warfare debt will go up. But taxation is a much stronger ideological indicator than debt level, since it directly influences the distribution of wealth. Choosing to finance the Iraq war et al without raising taxes was an ideological decision.

There has always been plenty of right wingers willing to get their countries into debt to finance military costs, its not a useful indicator of a politicians position on the left-right scale.

Non-Defense spending also increased significantly under Bush, and he enacted a ton of new spending initiatives, such as Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, and a record number of subsidy programs. Clearly he was not a fiscal conservative.

Never talked about fiscal conservatism, which is almost always irrelevant as an analytical category since few politicians are principled on those issues once they get into office, but you claimed he wasn't an economic conservative and if you look at his general record it is free trade, deregulation, less public sector influence and big tax cuts. So economically conservative.
The "ownership society" is also a quintessentially conservative concept with its focus on personal responsibility, economic freedom and ownership of property. All core conservative values.

[Deus Naturae]

Never talked about fiscal conservatism, which is almost always irrelevant as an analytical category since few politicians are principled on those issues once they get into office, but you claimed he wasn't an economic conservative and if you look at his general record it is free trade, deregulation, less public sector influence and big tax cuts. So economically conservative.

1. http://reason.com/archives/2008/12/10/bushs-regulatory-kiss-off

2. The public sector grew under Bush (see my previous post for examples).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Maybe, but Bush's desire for such a society manifested itself in expanding the Department of HUD, subsidizing down payments, and increasing the role of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

[All Along The Watchtower]

They were both very right-wing in their own ways.

[Mordecai]

Bush (obviously), he was Reagan on steroids.

[AggregateDemand]

The truth that no one likes to admit is that neither were that right wing.

Bush talked up a big evangelical game, but I think it's silly to classify someone as right wing because of their religious/cultural views (Jimmy Carter, anyone?).  Bush was rather conservative on social issues like gay marriage (he arguably single handedly MADE this a partisan issue) and abortion, but he was moderate to even liberal on immigration reform, he certainly wasn't a slave to small government or states' rights (which many on this board seem to think is a "conservative" thing) and his compassionate conservatism would be viciously attacked by the Tea Party.

Reagan is seen as this great conservative insurgent, and he really delivered a huge chunk of Southern Whites into the GOP with his emphasis on moral conservatism (no, it wasn't just the ever-growing-in-legend "Southern Strategy") and being strong on national defense (another thing we all just decided at some point was a "conservative" position.  However, he okayed an assault rifle ban, passed immigration reform and raised taxes while in office.

If you're a liberal Democrat, a lot of people are going to seem "right wing" to you who quite simply aren't.

[WalterMitty]

reagan, easily.

bush was actually fairly liberal.  look at the way federal spending exploded during his two terms.

[bedstuy]

reagan, easily.

bush was actually fairly liberal.  look at the way federal spending exploded during his two terms.

Did it though?  If you look at federal spending it in terms of percentage of GDP, how much of that increase was defense spending?  If you just looked at non-defense spending as a percentage of GDP, did that actually increase all that much?