Massachusetts Question 1
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 18, 2024, 02:25:28 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Massachusetts Question 1
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Poll
Question: Would you vote yes or no on this ballot measure?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 60

Author Topic: Massachusetts Question 1  (Read 1214 times)
ElectionsGuy
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,106
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.10, S: -7.65

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 27, 2014, 02:16:44 AM »

Description: Repeals 2013 law that automatically increases gas taxes according to inflation. Full Details

Yes
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,173
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 02:27:09 AM »

No, inflation adjustment is sensible.
Logged
Grumpier Than Thou
20RP12
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,319
United States
Political Matrix
E: -5.29, S: -7.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 05:08:16 AM »

No, inflation adjustment is sensible.
Logged
Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,637
Croatia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 05:36:46 AM »

I'd vote yes. I really don't see why inflation is an appropriate measure for the gas tax. This just seems like a way to continually increase taxes without having to vote on it, and it means people have to spend more on gas at the same time as they have to spend more on other goods.

Why? Gas tax revenues only pay for infrastructure and it's not like the CPI reflects how much the government needs to pay to construct roads and bridges.
Logged
Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends
Anton Kreitzer
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,167
Australia


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: 3.11

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 05:46:54 AM »

Definite yes from me.
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,800


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 09:08:19 AM »

I'd vote yes. I really don't see why inflation is an appropriate measure for the gas tax. This just seems like a way to continually increase taxes without having to vote on it, and it means people have to spend more on gas at the same time as they have to spend more on other goods.

Why? Gas tax revenues only pay for infrastructure and it's not like the CPI reflects how much the government needs to pay to construct roads and bridges.

Most tax revenue increases without voter approval. That happens because the taxes are most often based on a percent of the value of the item taxed. That's true for income, property and sales taxes. Since the value/cost of those items tends to rise with inflation, the tax revenue is automatically indexed.

Motor fuels are usually taxed on the volume of fuel, not the value. So if there were no change in vehicle efficiency, one would expect growth in revenue at about the same level as population growth, which is less than inflation. The cost of road building increases with inflation (primarily energy and labor costs) and where as CPI is not necessarily a good index, most people wouldn't want to tie it to a direct sales tax which would better match the changing cost of road construction.

The bigger problem in the future for transportation infrastructure is the changing efficiency of the vehicles. Taxing gasoline provided a reasonable connection to the miles driven and hence the need for road maintenance, so the tax went to the user. As alternative fuel vehicles become more widespread that connection is severed, and new methods will be needed to establish a tax that is commensurate with the amount of use of the transportation system.
Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,067
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 09:59:35 AM »

Yes
Logged
AggregateDemand
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,873
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 01:42:15 PM »

Is the federal rate of inflation a strong corollary to the budgetary needs of state transportation authorities?

Repeal. Pointless bill. If inflation hedges are desired, try using ad valorem taxes. When the cost of fuel is low and consumption rises, revenues stay level. When the cost of fuel is high and demand wanes, revenues remain relatively fixed.
Logged
traininthedistance
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,547


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 02:02:55 PM »

HELL no.

Logged
TNF
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,440


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 02:29:39 PM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,156
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 02:41:50 PM »

Logged
AggregateDemand
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,873
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 03:03:26 PM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.

Don't show up Democrats like that. They have a good thing going with the we-care-about-the-poor-and-elderly schtick.
Logged
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 03:18:49 PM »

Yes, obviously.
Logged
New_Conservative
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,139
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 03:32:15 PM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.
Logged
traininthedistance
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,547


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 03:47:18 PM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.

Only if you ignore the (overwhelmingly lower-income) slice of people who don't pay gas tax at all.  And even if so, the problems that stem from underpricing/implicitly subsidizing the use of fossil fuels (and failing to invest in infrastructure) are sufficiently obvious and extreme that, well, they trump basically all other concerns.  The proper response to equity concerns is to a) invest in the sorts of improvements that would well and truly make gasoline usage inessential for as many people as possible, and b) in the meantime, make it up in other areas of the code.

Selectively raising equity concerns as a cudgel against the prospect of dealing with legitimate and severe externality problems (and I'm not saying that you yourself are selective here, but you are providing cover for folks who are engaging in that sort of, well, selectivity) is simply unacceptable.
Logged
SNJ1985
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,276
United States
Political Matrix
E: 0.19, S: 7.57

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 09:20:32 PM »

Logged
Mr. Illini
liberty142
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,847
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.26, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2014, 09:21:41 AM »

Hard no. The gas tax is one of the most effective measures of reducing gasoline consumption. I'd vote for an increase even, but hooking it to inflation is just common sense.
Logged
Sopranos Republican
Matt from VT
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,178
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.03, S: -8.87

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2014, 11:20:22 AM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.

These. I certainly plan on voting yes.

Hard no. The gas tax is one of the most effective measures of reducing gasoline consumption. I'd vote for an increase even, but hooking it to inflation is just common sense.

Yes, because God forbid any of us need to drive to work to earn piss poor wages, and wish to have some money left over after fueling the car. Roll Eyes
Logged
WalterMitty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,572


Political Matrix
E: 1.68, S: -2.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2014, 05:46:30 PM »

no.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2014, 06:43:13 PM »

Considering fuel taxes are laughably low as it is and that tying them to inflation does nothing but prevent them from becoming even more laughable..... NO obviously.
Logged
bullmoose88
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,515


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2014, 06:48:48 PM »

Yes, given that the gas tax is regressive and hits strained working class budgets harder than it does anyone else.

This.
Logged
Citizen Hats
lol-i-wear-hats
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 680
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2014, 09:17:04 PM »

NO. 

transitioning away from the carbon economy is best done by hiking the cost of carboniferous fuels.  A gas tax covers a lot of that, not to mention that it helps pay for the roads which are massively subsidized, to the detriment of a lot of public life. 

If you're worried about the distributional effects, do what BC did and send a income-based rebate to low-income households, rather than insist on yet more subsidies for everyone's 1500 pound private vehicle. 
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,243
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2014, 09:21:38 PM »

No. Faux concern for the poor (strange how all of a sudden, when the precious automobile is at stake; conservatives are OK with regressive taxation) is a ruse.

Especially in a densely populated state like Massachusetts, the aim should be to render the private automobile as a luxurious non-necessity; not continue to prop up the practice with underhand subsidisation.
Logged
Mr. Illini
liberty142
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,847
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.26, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2014, 09:28:21 PM »

Hard no. The gas tax is one of the most effective measures of reducing gasoline consumption. I'd vote for an increase even, but hooking it to inflation is just common sense.

Yes, because God forbid any of us need to drive to work to earn piss poor wages, and wish to have some money left over after fueling the car. Roll Eyes

So do you just not support reducing gasoline consumption or do you have another proposition?
Logged
Sopranos Republican
Matt from VT
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,178
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.03, S: -8.87

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2014, 10:15:00 PM »

No. Faux concern for the poor (strange how all of a sudden, when the precious automobile is at stake; conservatives are OK with regressive taxation) is a ruse.

Especially in a densely populated state like Massachusetts, the aim should be to render the private automobile as a luxurious non-necessity; not continue to prop up the practice with underhand subsidisation.

Just FYI automobiles are a necessity for many of us Massachusetts folk, as we don't all live in Boston.

Hard no. The gas tax is one of the most effective measures of reducing gasoline consumption. I'd vote for an increase even, but hooking it to inflation is just common sense.

Yes, because God forbid any of us need to drive to work to earn piss poor wages, and wish to have some money left over after fueling the car. Roll Eyes

So do you just not support reducing gasoline consumption or do you have another proposition?

Uhhhh, of course I support moving to renewable energy. But the truth of the matter is while I really can't afford gax tax hikes, I am still going to fill up my car whether they are imposed or not, so I can get to work, and school, thus keeping myself alive and hopefully bettering myself in the future. Your argument that the gas tax will result in lower gas consumption doesn't really make sense given that the vast majority of people are still going to fill their tanks so they can get to where they need to be to earn a living. All gas tax hikes do is punish people for using gas, which for many of us non-enlightened folks unlike yourself, is still a necessity.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.061 seconds with 15 queries.