Sexual harassment?

[Slander and/or Libel]

Holy christ the comments in this thread.

[bedstuy]

Have you all heard that this video is racist?  Atlas is probably too immature to discuss this, but this whole debate over this video brings up some very interesting racial issues.

[Velasco]

Holy christ the comments in this thread.

Quite disturbing comments in the video and in this thread. As Lief said, neither of the guys were nice or friendly with the girl, just vulgar and unwanted "compliments" or attempts to start a conversation. Obviously, many of the guys in the video are sexually harassing the girl in several degrees. Others just say "hi", who knows if they are lacking enough audacity to go further. In any case, it's disturbing.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Holy christ the comments in this thread. No one in that video is trying to just be nice or friendly to that woman. Street harassment of women is a huge problem in New York City. And the idea that it only happens to hot women is ridiculous and completely untrue. The sidewalk is not where normal people first meet each other. No woman (or man, but this doesn't happen to men) wants to start talking to some random stranger while she's just walking down the street.

I don't know if it's sexual harassment, but it's definitely harassment.

Gustaf?

[bedstuy]

Have you all heard that this video is racist?  Atlas is probably too immature to discuss this, but this whole debate over this video brings up some very interesting racial issues.

I'm not sure what the video's creators expected when they insisted that harassment was just as common among white men. If that were true, then it would be troubling that those interactions had been edited out.

Do you think anyone actually believes the creators when they say that?

[Gustaf]

Holy christ the comments in this thread. No one in that video is trying to just be nice or friendly to that woman. Street harassment of women is a huge problem in New York City. And the idea that it only happens to hot women is ridiculous and completely untrue. The sidewalk is not where normal people first meet each other. No woman (or man, but this doesn't happen to men) wants to start talking to some random stranger while she's just walking down the street.

I don't know if it's sexual harassment, but it's definitely harassment.

Gustaf?

Disappointed that one of your bros didn't join in on the misogyny?

As much as I have my issues with Lief he does get feminism, I'll give him that.

It's amusing to me that it wasn't until Politicus, who is a woman, that someone got the point of my analogy. Sigh and sigh again.

[King]

I never said they were being nice or friendly, so I suppose I agree with Lief's post. My general point is that it's more of a New York City problem than in American society as a whole.

I also believe these men are more bark than bite and the woman is not in any danger. A truly dangerous person set on committing a crime wouldn't be a loud annoying asshole for all the world to see. Sexual assault happens in the shadows, many times is not committed by a stranger, and the most sexually aggressive males I have ever witnessed in high school, college, and into the bar scene as an adult have all been fairly attractive.

This problem is an annoyance on the level of dog owners who don't pick up turds, not something that is actually endangering American women.

[Cory]

Do you think anyone actually believes the creators when they say that?

Of course not, they just "have" to say that for obvious political reasons.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't know if it's sexual harassment, but it's definitely harassment.

[Reaganfan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwdoXbxFwuY#t=58

Steven Chowder tries Cat Calling real women with different reactions.

[Lief 🗽]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwdoXbxFwuY#t=58

Steven Chowder tries Cat Calling real women with different reactions.

ummm talking to sales people in stores is not cat calling, don't be a dumb.

Also a lot of those women still looked pretty uncomfortable based on their body language.

[Ban my account ffs!]

This thread was hard for me to understand.  I once had my car overheat and I pulled over... And no less than 10 people pulled over asking if I needed help... Including a young woman that was alone. She was maybe 18.

People greet each other on the sidewalks here... Or at least smile.  You can always chat with people.

The thought that this would be harassment is foreign.  No wonder people here fear New York.

[Simfan34]

Obviously things are different in rural Minnesota. I imagine that if we (law abiding citizens) had guns in New York City, a person who pulled over to a guy stuck on the road would be shot at by the guy.

My first reaction is to become defensive, when someone on the street randomly talks to me. Things are different.

I never said they were being nice or friendly, so I suppose I agree with Lief's post. My general point is that it's more of a New York City problem than in American society as a whole.

I also believe these men are more bark than bite and the woman is not in any danger. A truly dangerous person set on committing a crime wouldn't be a loud annoying asshole for all the world to see. Sexual assault happens in the shadows, many times is not committed by a stranger, and the most sexually aggressive males I have ever witnessed in high school, college, and into the bar scene as an adult have all been fairly attractive.

This problem is an annoyance on the level of dog owners who don't pick up turds, not something that is actually endangering American women.

It makes one feel uncomfortable. I'd say all people are entitled to feel comfortable when just normally walking around the street, minding their own business. Surely this is reasonable, to be allowed to walk in peace without being leered and jeered at by scummy males (or anyone for that matter).

[Gustaf]

This thread was hard for me to understand.  I once had my car overheat and I pulled over... And no less than 10 people pulled over asking if I needed help... Including a young woman that was alone. She was maybe 18.

People greet each other on the sidewalks here... Or at least smile.  You can always chat with people.

The thought that this would be harassment is foreign.  No wonder people here fear New York.

How is that comparable? If someone pull over because there is an issue with their car it actually is friendly (or can be at least) to ask what's up. That's different from catcalling.

[Gustaf]

I never said they were being nice or friendly, so I suppose I agree with Lief's post. My general point is that it's more of a New York City problem than in American society as a whole.

I also believe these men are more bark than bite and the woman is not in any danger. A truly dangerous person set on committing a crime wouldn't be a loud annoying asshole for all the world to see. Sexual assault happens in the shadows, many times is not committed by a stranger, and the most sexually aggressive males I have ever witnessed in high school, college, and into the bar scene as an adult have all been fairly attractive.

This problem is an annoyance on the level of dog owners who don't pick up turds, not something that is actually endangering American women.

I disagree though. I mean, I do agree that in most of these cases the woman is not in much actual danger. But it forms part of a social norm which does contribute to endangering women.

[Ban my account ffs!]

This thread was hard for me to understand.  I once had my car overheat and I pulled over... And no less than 10 people pulled over asking if I needed help... Including a young woman that was alone. She was maybe 18.

People greet each other on the sidewalks here... Or at least smile.  You can always chat with people.

The thought that this would be harassment is foreign.  No wonder people here fear New York.

How is that comparable? If someone pull over because there is an issue with their car it actually is friendly (or can be at least) to ask what's up. That's different from catcalling.

The point is the young woman felt safe and comfortable,enough to offer assistance to an unknown male stranger much bigger than her, at night, on the side of the road.

So yeah... It is relevant here.

[Gustaf]

This thread was hard for me to understand.  I once had my car overheat and I pulled over... And no less than 10 people pulled over asking if I needed help... Including a young woman that was alone. She was maybe 18.

People greet each other on the sidewalks here... Or at least smile.  You can always chat with people.

The thought that this would be harassment is foreign.  No wonder people here fear New York.

How is that comparable? If someone pull over because there is an issue with their car it actually is friendly (or can be at least) to ask what's up. That's different from catcalling.

The point is the young woman felt safe and comfortable,enough to offer assistance to an unknown male stranger much bigger than her, at night, on the side of the road.

So yeah... It is relevant here.

Um. But she may have looked at you and decided you were not dangerous. This isn't about how women in New York do not dare to approach any strange men. It's about men harassing women.

[Edu]

I don't agree with a lot of things that Gustaf writes in other topics but he is pretty much correct here and to see some people purposely misinterpreting what he says is pretty sad. It's also pretty sad that the only arguments I read againt what Gustaf posts are derivatives of calling him a "prude" or somesuch.

I didn't know where to respond since there is an argument at the deluge thread, but I decided to post it in here.

I live in Buenos Aires and those things that were shown in the video are pretty common. Having a nice looking woman walking near you can let you listen to all the vulgarities, wolf whistles, creeps following them around and making "Friendly conversation", etc. I'm not a woman and even I feel uncomfortable during those few minutes, I can't imagine what it would be for the poor girl who is the target of this advances and has to tolerate those all friggin day.




First thing that some people are apparently missing is that this is New York City which is full of people in a very small area. This isn't some rural or suburban location. Here, you walk around thousands of people in a matter of hours. Also, one thing is greeting another person in a friendly manner and then going about your business and another is what is shown in this video, I can't seriously believe some can't notice the difference. Taking these two into account, some of the comments are pretty baffling because they have nothing to do with the video that started this discussion.

This thread was hard for me to understand.  I once had my car overheat and I pulled over... And no less than 10 people pulled over asking if I needed help... Including a young woman that was alone. She was maybe 18.

As Gustaf said, this is pretty much unrelated to this, unless you are implying that people in cities can't be nice or help someone that has a particular problem like in your case, which is a pretty ridiculous argument. I don't know what this has to do with anything.

People greet each other on the sidewalks here... Or at least smile.  You can always chat with people.

Ok, people are used to the places where they live, so I can understand you might think this is weird, but in huge cities like New York or Buenos Aires to try an greet every stranger you see on the street would take you a better part of the day. Hell, if you walk for 1 hour in Buenos Aires you would probably come accross hundreds (if it's far from the city centre) or even thousands (if you are in the city centre) of people, I mean, why get a job, you'll be busy greeting people.

So no, in a big city you greet either people you know or people where it is socially established as a  common courtesy to greet, like for instance a receptionist in a building you just entered or maybe if the two stangers on the street shared a common experience such as witnessing a car crash or something in which case it would be normal to engage in conversation. Talking to a complete stranger on the street out of the blue would be pretty weird and ridiculous and it's a even creepier way of flirting. I'm sure you know this.

It's just a hyperbolic joke, Pearl, that if we all followed your guidelines when it came to flirting that the birth rate would drop to extinction levels.  Most forms of socially acceptable flirting certainly seem to horrify you.  

Actually he said that flirting where is socially accepted to flirt was perfectly fine. On the other hand if you think flriting with random women on the street for no reason is normal then you need help.

Because saying "How are you doing" to a woman is sexual harassment. Frankly, there is nothing in the world more demeaning and less like treating women as human beings than putting them in a carbonite box with a fragile label on it.

I don't find trying to avoid making someone unconfortable demeaning, in fact, the streets would be a lot nicer to walk on if everyone did that (to men and women)

People are allowed to greet other people. It's a simple courtesy, and usually doesn't have any implied sexual undertones whatsoever.  Is everybody in Scandinavia so impersonal and unfriendly?

LOL, you are not only ignoring the fact that unwanted advances and innapropiate places to flirt exist but you also ignore the video that started this thing.
There was nothing "curteous" or "friendly" about it and to deny the sexual undertones makes you look pretty dumb, which makes me think about what I wrote at the beginning about you ignoring these thigs on purpose to rile people up and not because of geniune stupidity.



This forum doesn't actually really seem that bad on this issue, reading some of the youtube comments can make your head explode. I especially like the guys who say that if a woman doesn't want to be harrased they should apparently walk in a burka or some crap like that, because some men can't control their mouth which seems to be a pretty easy thing to do.



Sure, a lot of the things I wrote are similar to what Gustaf and others wrote. LOL, frankly I think that some people only want to rile Gustaf up, so maybe this was a waste of time

But it is an issue that is generally talked about in jest and it is something I see everyday at work. Sure, as harrasement goes it's pretty mild, but it doesn't mean it's not a problem. So I still wanted to make the post.

[Gustaf]

Here btw is an article that explains it a bit more. http://www.bustle.com/articles/46527-6-things-you-might-not-think-are-harassment-but-definitely-are-because-apparently-we-need-to

Edu, I think a lot of men, especially those who haven't had much meaningful interaction with women do think this way. And it's an area where I think talking and explaining can actually help change things. Especially because one of the main shields for misogynists is the notion that all men agree with them. You can note how upset they become at other men not being bros and supporting women.