The South is Becoming a New Catholic Stronghold

[Frodo]

I realize this was from mid-2013, but everyone here seems to have missed it:

Protestant South Becoming a New Catholic Stronghold

BY STEPHEN BEALE 05/11/2013

LINDEN, Va. —

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Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/protestant-south-becoming-a-new-catholic-stronghold/#ixzz3HrqiXJIG

[memphis]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

If 20 Hispanics move in and the Catholic population doubled, it very well could be that there were only 10 or even 5 Catholics there before.  Especially in the areas where immigrants are coming from, Catholicism in Latin America is being replaced by Protestantism, especially of the Pentecostal variety.  And that's not to mention the quaintness of equating Hispanics with Mexicans.  While they are still by far the largest group, their share of illegal immigration has been going down.

[memphis]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

If 20 Hispanics move in and the Catholic population doubled, it very well could be that there were only 10 or even 5 Catholics there before.  Especially in the areas where immigrants are coming from, Catholicism in Latin America is being replaced by Protestantism, especially of the Pentecostal variety.  And that's not to mention the quaintness of equating Hispanics with Mexicans.  While they are still by far the largest group, their share of illegal immigration has been going down.

1. You're making the same mathematical mistake, but in reverse. Protestant denominations are growing quickly by percents, but Latin America remains overwhelmingly Catholic. The 2010 Mexican Census found that 83% of the population was Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#Religion
2. Why do you presume Hispanics, Mexicans or otherwise, are illegal? That's quite an onerous suggestion.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

[Adam Griffin]

Anecdotally, Ernest brings up a valid point, as I live in one of the most Latino cities in the eastern United States. Just guessing here, but I'd say one-quarter to one-third of the Christian Latino population here now is either Protestant or some variation of unaffiliated Catholic.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

2. Why do you presume Hispanics, Mexicans or otherwise, are illegal? That's quite an onerous suggestion.

Because those coming into a rural Southern county with no previous Hispanic population are to a large extent undocumented.  Legal immigration of all sorts, not just Hispanics, tends primarily to be of relatives, and hence legal Hispanic immigrants are more likely to be found in areas where existing Hispanic populations are, not in areas experiencing a new flood of Hispanic immigration.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

[GaussLaw]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

Indeed.  In Louisiana, Cajun Catholics down South (outside of New Orleans) are just as conservative as Protestants up in the Northern part of the state. 

As for the article, where I live in MO is overwhelmingly Baptist and born-again Christian.  Catholicism is not particularly big here.

[memphis]

2. Why do you presume Hispanics, Mexicans or otherwise, are illegal? That's quite an onerous suggestion.

Because those coming into a rural Southern county with no previous Hispanic population are to a large extent undocumented. 

Citation grossly needed.

[Sol]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

If 20 Hispanics move in and the Catholic population doubled, it very well could be that there were only 10 or even 5 Catholics there before.  Especially in the areas where immigrants are coming from, Catholicism in Latin America is being replaced by Protestantism, especially of the Pentecostal variety.  And that's not to mention the quaintness of equating Hispanics with Mexicans.  While they are still by far the largest group, their share of illegal immigration has been going down.

1. You're making the same mathematical mistake, but in reverse. Protestant denominations are growing quickly by percents, but Latin America remains overwhelmingly Catholic. The 2010 Mexican Census found that 83% of the population was Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#Religion
2. Why do you presume Hispanics, Mexicans or otherwise, are illegal? That's quite an onerous suggestion.

Some central american countries are at around 40% protestant, though.

[memphis]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

If 20 Hispanics move in and the Catholic population doubled, it very well could be that there were only 10 or even 5 Catholics there before.  Especially in the areas where immigrants are coming from, Catholicism in Latin America is being replaced by Protestantism, especially of the Pentecostal variety.  And that's not to mention the quaintness of equating Hispanics with Mexicans.  While they are still by far the largest group, their share of illegal immigration has been going down.

1. You're making the same mathematical mistake, but in reverse. Protestant denominations are growing quickly by percents, but Latin America remains overwhelmingly Catholic. The 2010 Mexican Census found that 83% of the population was Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#Religion
2. Why do you presume Hispanics, Mexicans or otherwise, are illegal? That's quite an onerous suggestion.

Some central american countries are at around 40% protestant, though.

Which is why I referred to Mexicans in my original post. There may be a few Central Americans in the rural South, but they are far outnumbered by Mexicans.

[Person Man]

It'll definitely be interesting in what the RCC/Fundamentalist dialog and demographics looks like by mid-century in the South and Latin America.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

Virtually no youngs are embracing Catholicism. The retention rate is terrible, and while lots of other denominations have similar numbers, they're at least gaining some converts to offset it, while Catholicism isn't. In fact I think ARDA's last survey had the Catholic percentage declining despite large Hispanic immigration which is quite the demographic feat.

Anyway why on Earth would being Catholic make people more likely to support socially liberal and tolerant policies? You could at least hope for them to move to more liberal Protestantism like in the Midwest.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

Virtually no youngs are embracing Catholicism. The retention rate is terrible, and while lots of other denominations have similar numbers, they're at least gaining some converts to offset it, while Catholicism isn't. In fact I think ARDA's last survey had the Catholic percentage declining despite large Hispanic immigration which is quite the demographic feat.

Anyway why on Earth would being Catholic make people more likely to support socially liberal and tolerant policies? You could at least hope for them to move to more liberal Protestantism like in the Midwest.

Because I've noticed Catholic people tend to be more socially liberal is all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In 2012 there were countless signs to vote no on the marriage amendment around my neighborhood. Including in front of many churches in fact. There was a grand total of one yes sign I ever saw in my neighborhood...in front of a Catholic church. Most of the Protestant churches in Minneapolis were opposed, the Catholic Church in the state was the biggest funder, which led to many stories of people renouncing their membership because they refused to donate any money to the Catholic church on this alone. Now that's not the whole state, but the largest Protestant denomination in the state was encouraging a no vote.

Personally though, I have a no compromises and completely non-negotiable non-complimentarian position, which is pretty clearly a liberal one. And thus I could not under any circumstances whatsoever be a Catholic simply due to that alone.

[DC Al Fine]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

Virtually no youngs are embracing Catholicism. The retention rate is terrible, and while lots of other denominations have similar numbers, they're at least gaining some converts to offset it, while Catholicism isn't. In fact I think ARDA's last survey had the Catholic percentage declining despite large Hispanic immigration which is quite the demographic feat.

Anyway why on Earth would being Catholic make people more likely to support socially liberal and tolerant policies? You could at least hope for them to move to more liberal Protestantism like in the Midwest.

Because I've noticed Catholic people tend to be more socially liberal is all.

My personal observation is that once you adjust for different racial makeup and the "Catholic identity" factor, the difference disappears. White Catholics who go to church weekly or more are roughly as conservative as their Evangelical counterparts.

[memphis]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

Virtually no youngs are embracing Catholicism. The retention rate is terrible, and while lots of other denominations have similar numbers, they're at least gaining some converts to offset it, while Catholicism isn't. In fact I think ARDA's last survey had the Catholic percentage declining despite large Hispanic immigration which is quite the demographic feat.

Anyway why on Earth would being Catholic make people more likely to support socially liberal and tolerant policies? You could at least hope for them to move to more liberal Protestantism like in the Midwest.

Because I've noticed Catholic people tend to be more socially liberal is all.

My personal observation is that once you adjust for different racial makeup and the "Catholic identity" factor, the difference disappears. White Catholics who go to church weekly or more are roughly as conservative as their Evangelical counterparts.

How many white Catholics go to church weekly?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Fastest growth by percentage doesn't equal "becoming a new catholic stronghold." In the typical rural Southern county, if 20 Mexicans move in (which is not such an uncommon thing these days) the Catholic population may well double. They're still a negligible population

Yea... pretty much.  I would love to see the South shift to Catholicism but it's not going to happen.  They'll become irreligious before they become Catholic. 

If the South turned Catholic it'd be just as right wing as it is now. Evangelical converts to Catholicism tend to be socon extremists who just love the RCC's positions on abortion and gay marriage. Look at Sam Brownback, Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich and NOM's leader Brian Brown. In fact I'd wager that Catholic converts to evangelicalism are more Democratic than vice-versa (due to high prevalence of Hispanics in the former and a non-insignificant amount converting to my type of evangelicalism.)

I meant "shift to Catholicism" through influx of new people, youngs embracing Catholicism, and older Protestants dying off. 

Virtually no youngs are embracing Catholicism. The retention rate is terrible, and while lots of other denominations have similar numbers, they're at least gaining some converts to offset it, while Catholicism isn't. In fact I think ARDA's last survey had the Catholic percentage declining despite large Hispanic immigration which is quite the demographic feat.

Anyway why on Earth would being Catholic make people more likely to support socially liberal and tolerant policies? You could at least hope for them to move to more liberal Protestantism like in the Midwest.

Because I've noticed Catholic people tend to be more socially liberal is all.

My personal observation is that once you adjust for different racial makeup and the "Catholic identity" factor, the difference disappears. White Catholics who go to church weekly or more are roughly as conservative as their Evangelical counterparts.

How many white Catholics go to church weekly?

And why do we only care about white Catholics?

[DC Al Fine]

And why do we only care about white Catholics?

Because making the statement ______ is more liberal than ______ is useless without controlling for underlying factors. In this case, Catholics might be more liberal than Evangelicals because of their relatively high share of Hispanics or their non-attenders retaining their Catholic identity at a high rate. You need to compare like with like in order to make this assessment.

My personal observation is that once you adjust for different racial makeup and the "Catholic identity" factor, the difference disappears. White Catholics who go to church weekly or more are roughly as conservative as their Evangelical counterparts.

How many white Catholics go to church weekly?

I haven't the foggiest.

[memphis]

And why do we only care about white Catholics?

Because making the statement ______ is more liberal than ______ is useless without controlling for underlying factors. In this case, Catholics might be more liberal than Evangelicals because of their relatively high share of Hispanics or their non-attenders retaining their Catholic identity at a high rate. You need to compare like with like in order to make this assessment.

My personal observation is that once you adjust for different racial makeup and the "Catholic identity" factor, the difference disappears. White Catholics who go to church weekly or more are roughly as conservative as their Evangelical counterparts.

How many white Catholics go to church weekly?

I haven't the foggiest.

I don't have a specific number to offer, but I can assure you that it's mcuh lower than for Evangelicals.