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Author Topic: The Confederate Flag  (Read 9397 times)
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StatesRights
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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2004, 12:03:34 pm »
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Why should they remove the British Union Jack? Hawaii was discovered by the British. It had heavy British influence. Should we next remove the colors of our flag because those colors were adopted from the Union Jack. The Confederate Flag is developed from the british flag as well.

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« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2004, 12:08:26 pm »
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Why should they remove the British Union Jack? Hawaii was discovered by the British. It had heavy British influence. Should we next remove the colors of our flag because those colors were adopted from the Union Jack. The Confederate Flag is developed from the british flag as well.




Ok fine, I don't really care to argue the point and it's not something I feel strongly about.
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« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2004, 12:08:45 pm »
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While I find the confederate flag to be very offensive, I would never support the banning of it or any other flag.
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« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2004, 12:57:40 pm »
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I believe that anyone has the right to display whatever flag they want, to use the N-word, and to spout hate.

I also believe that everyone else has the right to mock them for being the tiny people that they are.
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« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2004, 01:32:13 pm »
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I believe that anyone has the right to display whatever flag they want, to use the N-word, and to spout hate.

I also believe that everyone else has the right to mock them for being the tiny people that they are.

outstanding.  that's how I read the first amendment also.
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« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2004, 01:33:53 pm »
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I believe that anyone has the right to display whatever flag they want, to use the N-word, and to spout hate.

I also believe that everyone else has the right to mock them for being the tiny people that they are.

outstanding.  that's how I read the first amendment also.

I agree. Excellent point.
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« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2004, 01:51:21 pm »
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I believe that anyone has the right to display whatever flag they want, to use the N-word, and to spout hate.

I also believe that everyone else has the right to mock them for being the tiny people that they are.

outstanding.  that's how I read the first amendment also.

I agree. Excellent point.

There are limits, though.  It is one thing to say that all Norwegians are a bunch of herring-eating block-heads.  It's quite another to advocate that people rise up in violence against Norwegians.  When hate-speech turns into inciting violence, right-to-life-and-limb takes precedence over right-to-liberty.

But otherwise, fly your Confederate flag, and fly your Nazi flag, so we know to make fun of you.
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« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2004, 02:06:06 pm »
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Are you comparing the Confederate flag to the Nazi flag? Seems that you are since you are lumping the two together. More crimes have been committed under the Stars and Stripes then the Stars and Bars.
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« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2004, 02:33:07 pm »
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Are you comparing the Confederate flag to the Nazi flag? Seems that you are since you are lumping the two together. More crimes have been committed under the Stars and Stripes then the Stars and Bars.

It's all about perceived meaning.  To a Black person in this country, the Stars and Bars is a slap in the face.  To a person of Hindu faith, the Swastika is a revered religious symbol.  Our Indian neighbors across the hall had swastikas drawn on their doorstep.  It came as a shock to us (as we have an obviously Jewish name, and thought it might be against us), until we realized that they had no intention of offending anyone.  Likewise, to YOU the Stars and Bars may be a symbol of rebellion against tyranny, or the cultural heritage of the South.  But to a Black person, it is a symbol of slavery and racism.  That is why I lump the two together.

I will grant you, the intent of those who fly the Stars and Bars usually isn't to advocate white supremacy, whereas that's almost the universal intent of the Nazi flag.  But since I believe both are protected speech, does it matter?
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« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2004, 02:36:22 pm »
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Not all blacks percieve the Stars and Bars as a symbol of hate. Maybe up there in Wisconsin. But down here I know plenty of blacks that are NOT offended by me wearing or having CS Flags. I even know quite a few blacks who wear them themselves!
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« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2004, 09:13:27 pm »
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I don't find anything wrong with the confederate flag.  Lately it just has become a symbol of the south, not as a promotional symbol of slavery.  Even back in the days of the confederacy, the flag didnt' stand for slavery, it stood for southern pride.  It was a symbol of being from the land of dixie, a farmer of cotton, a devout person of faith, and a good ole boy.  It was just used to represent their desire for independence and now it's just a symbol of pride.  It's just like putting any other flag of nationality up.

So break out the rusty dodge pickup and blare that dixie horn, with your confederate flag on the back!
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« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2004, 11:02:50 am »
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I think it is all a matter of perseption, I see the Civil War as the final conflict between the Federal vs. Confederate ideas. States' Rights. Slavery was the embodiment of this issue. Therefore in my mind I see this as a war on ideology, not slavery. So no the flag should not be banned.

As for the Flag of Nazi Germany, I don't think it should be banned, the reason I think that it should not be banned is that it is an important part of the History of Germany, Europe, and the World. Those things we forget tend to haunt us later, like in Rwanda and Yugoslavia, we should take heed of Nazi German and always remember it and not bury it in the past.

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« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2004, 06:39:09 pm »
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I don’t see anything wrong with the confederate flag… being ¼ Louisianan and ¾ Midwestern… I see it as a symbol of “States Rights”, YES I used the term and NO I do not equate that term with the evil of segregation and racism, but it is time that people saw slavery as not the cause of the civil war but a symptom of the profound different beliefs in the role of government between the north and the south, with federalists in the north and those in favour of a much more loose “confederacy” in the south… I see a reason to reject totally the misuse of the confederacy’s flag, as some in the UK (where I am at present) for example misuse the Union Flag… I think to ban the CSA’s flag is to rewrite history in black and white… to quote from Faulkner in “Intruder in the Dust”…

“For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two oclock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't happened yet, it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet but there is stll time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armstead and Wilcox look grave yet it's going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn't need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose and all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago....”


…I do not think that anyone with an ounce of southerner or American in him can deny that these men in both armies fought for great things than simply abolishing or preserving slavery, I will never give into racism or intolerance and have nothing but contempt for the south’s ridged opposition to Civil Rights and its treatment of the African American population after and before the civil war right up until the 1970’s, that said I think mistakes where made by both Johnson and Nixon in their handling of the issue…and with that in mind I am proud of the confederate flag and the real values it represents not those it was hijacked to represent…            


As for the Nazi Flag of Germany... I dont think you can ban it... but it is a symbol of such a hatful ideology and destructive system of belife that I think that any display of it should most certainly be frowned upon... having said that... who the hell would fly the Nazi Flag?!?!?!?!

   
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« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2004, 06:45:12 pm »
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great post Ben
couldn't agree more
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« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2004, 06:54:28 pm »
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great post Ben
couldn't agree more

Thanks... Faulkner quote was probably a little bit dramatic but hey where would this broad be without a little drama Smiley and it reflects my deep attachment to the confederacy and the good values it stood for not the things it was hijacked by both the right and left to represent…  
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« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2004, 08:27:26 pm »
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I do not equate flying the Confederate flag with being Anti American. More Southerners have died in US wars then any other region of the nation. I am as proud to be an American as ever, and I have a CS Flag bumpersticker on my truck (you can call me a redneck, ha ha), and I have a CS TShirt that says, "Proud descendent of a Confederate Veteran".
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« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2004, 08:33:14 pm »
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Same way out here in California.  Most folks that have CSA decals on the bumper or flags stitched into their black felt five-gallon hats are very patriotic.  Usually they also have old glory within reach as well.  I don't think that's inconsistent.  As far as I can tell, the insurrection against King George III was more illegal, technically, than the SC legislature's vote to secede.  And those two rebellions were started for very much the same reason:  the right of self-determination.
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« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2004, 08:51:46 pm »
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Taxes and Tariffs as well.
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« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2004, 08:20:03 am »
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Reading the thread I'm a bit confused. Is it allowed to fly the Nazi flag in the US ?
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« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2004, 08:39:47 am »
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Reading the thread I'm a bit confused. Is it allowed to fly the Nazi flag in the US ?

I would imagine it is, but very few people would dare to do it.  I don't think any flag is outlawed in the US, not should they be.
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« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2004, 11:53:59 am »
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Reading the thread I'm a bit confused. Is it allowed to fly the Nazi flag in the US ?

Of course it is.  Germany is the only country I know of which has expressly forbid it.  Netherlands is the only country I know of which has banned the book "Mein Kampf."  Though I'm sure there are others.

My reading of the constitution convinces me that banning of any symbol is illegal in the Republic.  Any constructionist (but not necessarily any activist) justice would recognize this, regardless of how 'liberal' or 'conservative' he or she was socialized.
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« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2004, 11:56:08 am »
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Reading the thread I'm a bit confused. Is it allowed to fly the Nazi flag in the US ?

Of course it is.  Germany is the only country I know of which has expressly forbid it.  Netherlands is the only country I know of which has banned the book "Mein Kampf."  Though I'm sure there are others.

My reading of the constitution convinces me that banning of any symbol is illegal in the Republic.  Any constructionist (but not necessarily any activist) justice would recognize this, regardless of how 'liberal' or 'conservative' he or she was socialized.
Israel o/c banned both
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« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2004, 12:06:43 pm »
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I believe that anyone has the right to display whatever flag they want, to use the N-word, and to spout hate.

I also believe that everyone else has the right to mock them for being the tiny people that they are.

outstanding.  that's how I read the first amendment also.

I agree. Excellent point.

There are limits, though.  It is one thing to say that all Norwegians are a bunch of herring-eating block-heads.  It's quite another to advocate that people rise up in violence against Norwegians.  When hate-speech turns into inciting violence, right-to-life-and-limb takes precedence over right-to-liberty.

But otherwise, fly your Confederate flag, and fly your Nazi flag, so we know to make fun of you.

That's the way that Swedish law is made...what we call 'agitation against group', or something to that effect.
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« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2004, 05:29:52 pm »
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I believe it was in the long run correct to abolish slavery. The manner in which it was done I disagree with. A slow method over 20-50 years would have had much less of a detrimental effect on the economy of the south.

So, freedom of blacks is less important than the economy of the South? Huh
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« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2004, 05:42:54 pm »
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I voted NO, but only because of it as a Free Speech issue. Certainly individuals have the right to wear/have any flag they want.

However, I would say that I disapprove of the (Confederate) flag at State Legislatures. Yes, the state of S.C. can do what it wants, but I think it's wrong. The CS Flag is divisive symbol that only represents part of the population--not only does it offend many blacks, it does not carry any positive meaning for anybody whose ancestors lived either in the North or overseas at the time of the Civil War.

I also find it amusing that people who wear/have CS Flags say it is a symbol of "States Rights", yet most of them would turn around and support a Federal Marriage Amendment that would limit the powers of the states to define marriage.
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"George Bush supports abstinence. Lucky Laura."
- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

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