Don't look now but the oil market is collapsing (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 01, 2024, 09:24:57 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Don't look now but the oil market is collapsing (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Don't look now but the oil market is collapsing  (Read 10509 times)
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« on: November 06, 2014, 05:01:41 PM »

I've read that OPEC lowering oil prices has nothing to do with staying competitive -- it's just Saudi Arabia trying to drive US shale oil companies out of business. It's basically dumping.

In a vacuum, yes, but it's a desperation play by the Saudis. US shale has the upper hand. They're panicked about North America's energy outlook.

Isn't shale only profitable around $65 a barrel, though? If they pump enough to get it below that we'd be the ones in trouble, no?
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 05:40:05 PM »

Citigroup seems to agree with King's bullishness.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 05:59:24 PM »

You know the old Atlas adage, "as goes King, so goes the country."

One of the interesting findings of the report is that we are going to have to lift the export ban by 2015, because otherwise the excess supply would drive down prices to where it will become unprofitable and kill the boom. Of course that will be mitigated by the fact shale's breakeven price, as we get more infrastructure in place, may drop to $35 by 2020, which changes its economics completely.

I don't know how much of an effect on other sectors their forecast includes (the lower energy costs are, the more competitive our manufacturing sector becomes), but the idea of our trade deficit narrowing to 0.3% is tantalisingly close to zero. We'd become something of a petrostate. I'd support starting a SWF, actually, but we'd need to somehow get the politicians' hands out of the pot. Either way, we have a bright energy future ahead of us.

East Africa (no, not Ethiopia), is another area where they seems to be a lot of untapped potential, some of it might be coming online by then. Prices are going to be going down unless China or India sees an unforecasted spike in growth.

I agree with traininthedistance obviously, that we shouldn't use this an excuse to revert to the suburban idyll... ick. I really hope that doesn't happen. I'm also skeptical of the "green tech is growing because of coolness". There's a lot of hype, sure, but they'll be expected to really get near the costs of conventional power generation soon or there will be a bust. Tesla, anyway, is powered by electricity... powered by natural gas plants.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 06:08:40 PM »

Also I'm actually writing a paper on another time the Saudis, this time with our backing, flooded the market with oil (or at least threatened to); this was the mid-1970s and my man, Shahanshah Aryamehr, had decided that the Iranian economy was going to grow 25% annually and needed the money to pay for the (inflated) Five-Year Plan. We balked and the Saudis made sure OPEC didn't agree to raise prices. The rest is history.

Now it seems to be repeating itself, funnily enough. But here, the Saudis deserve to be screwed over (well, so do most people who think they can get an economy to grow at 25% for five years straight, but I'll make an exception for the Shah).
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 06:17:24 PM »

Question, will this further hurt the coal industry?

Probably. Hopefully it will mean that gas will overtake coal in electricity generation sometime before 2035 (!!!) which is far too long.

I've often wondered whether it is feasible to simply export all our coal to China. I'd doubt it.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 02:02:56 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

What?! I call BS on that. And even if not, the issue of space would still remain a major barrier.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 12:48:40 PM »

I had a semi-serious conversation with a few friends who work for investment banks saying that if oil were to go below $30 the US would take to funding Shia rebels in Saudi Arabia to get them to stop pumping so much. Silly, but they show no signs of blinking even now.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2015, 08:28:26 PM »

I had a semi-serious conversation with a few friends who work for investment banks saying that if oil were to go below $30 the US would take to funding Shia rebels in Saudi Arabia to get them to stop pumping so much. Silly, but they show no signs of blinking even now.

Well, nearly a year on, and it looks like we're headed towards exactly that. So...
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 12 queries.