Obama saves net neutrality, orders broadband be classified as vital service

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Question for you all:

Suppose that hamburgers were classified as a vital service, and a policy of "hamburger neutrality" were imposed. Instead of McDonalds, Wendy's, In-N-Out etc. being able to sell hamburgers a la carte in the quantity the customer wants to eat, it would instead be legally mandated that each customer pay a flat fee in exchange for access to buffet, where each customer would be entitled to take as many hamburgers as he or she wants.

1. Do you think this will decrease, or increase, the cost of going out for burgers to the average person? By a lot, or a little?

2. Do you think that this will increase, or decrease, the typical quality of hamburgers? Will the quality of burger joints' customer service increase, or decrease?

Two things:

1. Your second question is irrelevant since Wendys, McDonalds, etc have always and will continue to produce the only lowest quality burgers, regardless of any other external factors (although that's far from the biggest problem with your analogy). 

2. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Remember, libertarians like wormyguy claim to be anti-corporatism.

This is a gift to Netflix.

And Netflix users.

And corn subsidies benefit users of corn syrup.

[AggregateDemand]

I know that's an economic heuristic device, but does it actually apply?

What is the common-resource being depleted?

I'm not an internet expert or an engineer so I have to defer to experts on this subject.  When I've heard them speak, they all seem to be in favor of net neutrality.  They all seem to think fiber optic improvements, opening up new areas of spectrum and various other technological developments will continue to keep pace.

Apparently bandwidth is being depleted, and that's why companies are interested in throttling and priority.

Net neutrality probably is in our best interest, but its benefits are not a license to ignore its drawbacks. For example, raising income for lower class Americans is probably in our best interest, but ignoring the draw backs of min wage has caused needless economic neglect for millions of unskilled workers.

[TDAS04]

Excellent news. 

[they don't love you like i love you]

Remember, libertarians like wormyguy claim to be anti-corporatism.

This is a gift to Netflix.

Small business over big business then.

Yeah Netflix isn't small business in the traditional sense, but they sure are in comparison to the telecom giants opposing this.

[MaxQue]

I know that's an economic heuristic device, but does it actually apply?

What is the common-resource being depleted?

I'm not an internet expert or an engineer so I have to defer to experts on this subject.  When I've heard them speak, they all seem to be in favor of net neutrality.  They all seem to think fiber optic improvements, opening up new areas of spectrum and various other technological developments will continue to keep pace.

Apparently bandwidth is being depleted, and that's why companies are interested in throttling and priority.

No. Bandwidth is usually not depleted, but big corporations likes to say it in order of convincing government to allow them to control what the people do on Internet (and so, allow them to sell to websites quicker access to their guests and slow access to websites showing opinions they don't like). It would allow corporations to influence freedom of speech on Internet by favoring or restraining access to certain opinions. In theory, a corportion could slow down access to all Republican candidates websites and speed up access for the Democrat ones.

In some area, like mine, there was some depletion of bandwidth a few months ago, but it wasn't due to the users. It was due to a quite incompetent ISP unwilling to invest in infrastructure until market forced them too (it had issues with cell phones capacities, too, it was impossible to use a cell phone between 4PM and 6PM because the outdated infrastructure wouldn't handle it). Outdated infrastructure which isn't upgraded for purely financial reasons is a big issue in rural/remote areas where competition isn't real or simply monopolistic.

[AggregateDemand]

No. Bandwidth is usually not depleted, but big corporations likes to say it in order of convincing government to allow them to control what the people do on Internet (and so, allow them to sell to websites quicker access to their guests and slow access to websites showing opinions they don't like). It would allow corporations to influence freedom of speech on Internet by favoring or restraining access to certain opinions. In theory, a corportion could slow down access to all Republican candidates websites and speed up access for the Democrat ones.

In some area, like mine, there was some depletion of bandwidth a few months ago, but it wasn't due to the users. It was due to a quite incompetent ISP unwilling to invest in infrastructure until market forced them too (it had issues with cell phones capacities, too, it was impossible to use a cell phone between 4PM and 6PM because the outdated infrastructure wouldn't handle it). Outdated infrastructure which isn't upgraded for purely financial reasons is a big issue in rural/remote areas where competition isn't real or simply monopolistic.

I understand the theoretical issues. The real issues are pricing leverage between the service providers and the content providers, and the extraordinary bandwidth usage from piracy and porn.

I'm for neutrality, but only as long as people acknowledge the inherent drawbacks, and they work to overcome them.

[Knives]

The internet should be free and provided by the government. In todays society, it's just as necessary as running water.

[bedstuy]

I know that's an economic heuristic device, but does it actually apply?

What is the common-resource being depleted?

I'm not an internet expert or an engineer so I have to defer to experts on this subject.  When I've heard them speak, they all seem to be in favor of net neutrality.  They all seem to think fiber optic improvements, opening up new areas of spectrum and various other technological developments will continue to keep pace.

Apparently bandwidth is being depleted, and that's why companies are interested in throttling and priority.

No. Bandwidth is usually not depleted, but big corporations likes to say it in order of convincing government to allow them to control what the people do on Internet (and so, allow them to sell to websites quicker access to their guests and slow access to websites showing opinions they don't like). It would allow corporations to influence freedom of speech on Internet by favoring or restraining access to certain opinions. In theory, a corportion could slow down access to all Republican candidates websites and speed up access for the Democrat ones.

In some area, like mine, there was some depletion of bandwidth a few months ago, but it wasn't due to the users. It was due to a quite incompetent ISP unwilling to invest in infrastructure until market forced them too (it had issues with cell phones capacities, too, it was impossible to use a cell phone between 4PM and 6PM because the outdated infrastructure wouldn't handle it). Outdated infrastructure which isn't upgraded for purely financial reasons is a big issue in rural/remote areas where competition isn't real or simply monopolistic.

Yeah, I agree with this.  This idea of bandwidth depletion is a total red herring.  The pipes are there, regardless of priority.  It's a question of whether some traffic gets a fast lane, not the total capacity.

Now that I think about it, the issue with depletion of capacity might actually come in the future because of leaving net neutrality.  If the big players in the market can just speed up their traffic at the expense of the little guys, maybe they'll react over under-investing in infrastructure in total.  You'll get the CNNs of the world running fast and the small independent media unable to provide the same level of streaming content for example.  Net neutrality is just in the best interests of the public no matter how you slice it.

Also, let's remember that the big players aren't helpless if we have net neutrality.  Google, Netflix, etc can co-locate their servers so they can provide content with fewer hops and take advantage of the whole speed of light business.

[MurrayBannerman]

All disallowing net neutrality would do would slow the inevitable fall of cable internet. Fiber internet is the superior technology in every way and has absolutely decimated cable in every location it has popped up in.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I know that's an economic heuristic device, but does it actually apply?

What is the common-resource being depleted?

I'm not an internet expert or an engineer so I have to defer to experts on this subject.  When I've heard them speak, they all seem to be in favor of net neutrality.  They all seem to think fiber optic improvements, opening up new areas of spectrum and various other technological developments will continue to keep pace.

Apparently bandwidth is being depleted, and that's why companies are interested in throttling and priority.

Net neutrality probably is in our best interest, but its benefits are not a license to ignore its drawbacks. For example, raising income for lower class Americans is probably in our best interest, but ignoring the draw backs of min wage has caused needless economic neglect for millions of unskilled workers.

Bandwidth is not being "depleted". Entrenched monopolies are declining to upgrade last mile infrastructure because they're focused on the (very) short-term, and are likewise refusing to properly maintain or upgrade their connections with other Tier One providers in an attempt to kill Netflix and similar video streaming services. All so the ISPs who are also content providers can attempt to keep their dying business model of grossly overcharging for video no one wants to watch alive a little longer.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

All disallowing net neutrality would do would slow the inevitable fall of cable internet. Fiber internet is the superior technology in every way and has absolutely decimated cable in every location it has popped up in.

It took six years to final get off dial up and onto cable internet. We also don't have fiber optics in this area either.

[MaxQue]

All disallowing net neutrality would do would slow the inevitable fall of cable internet. Fiber internet is the superior technology in every way and has absolutely decimated cable in every location it has popped up in.

It took six years to final get off dial up and onto cable internet. We also don't have fiber optics in this area either.

Most areas don't either, yet.

[they don't love you like i love you]

http://www.minnpost.com/data/2013/09/mapping-fiber-internet-minneapolis-where-it-and-will-it-expand

Don't have it. Though I could get it if I moved a few blocks to the west.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If bandwidth is not being depleted and is some unlimited resource, then why has there been all this controversy over how to handle spectrum reallocation?  Why have they been trying to get broadcasters to lessen their use of the spectrum?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Telecom giants fervently oppose this.  LOL, does anything more need to be said of whether or not this is good for the general population?  You conservatives that oppose this, that's fine, leaving everything up to the profit motive is 90% of your economic ideology.  Getting warm and fuzzy about corporate entities is the other 10%.  But let me ask you about when Comcast messed with people's connections because they were using Netflix.  You would say that customers have every right to switch their service and then Comcast would change and free market this and supply/demand that.  Who the hell are they going to switch to, though?  Comcast is a de facto monopoly in most of their territory.  I live in South Jersey, and Comcast almost completely owns the Phila. metro.  Comcast would have every incentive NOT to improve their internet service, and every incentive to transform it into an unrecognizable horror and force people to pay for premium to get out from under it. 

[bedstuy]

If bandwidth is not being depleted and is some unlimited resource, then why has there been all this controversy over how to handle spectrum reallocation?  Why have they been trying to get broadcasters to lessen their use of the spectrum?

How does net neutrality "deplete" more of the capacity on the internet than a hypothetical system that allowed certain traffic to have priority?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

If bandwidth is not being depleted and is some unlimited resource, then why has there been all this controversy over how to handle spectrum reallocation?  Why have they been trying to get broadcasters to lessen their use of the spectrum?

How does net neutrality "deplete" more of the capacity on the internet than a hypothetical system that allowed certain traffic to have priority?

Well, your service provider could pretty much make sure you only go to the websites they want you to.  How that is a good thing?  I don't know, I don't live in capitalist fairytale land.

[Person Man]

Does anyone else see ending net neutrality causing groups like annomonous to cause trouble?

[user12345]

"President Obama’s call for internet regulation hurts innovation, job growth, and is bad for consumers. Instead of circumventing Congress in favor of action by the executive branch, the president should listen to the American people who just spoke on November 4th and demanded that the Administration work with Congress to enact policies that will get our country back on track." - Roy Blunt (R). What a f**king idiot and a disgrace to Missouri.

[KCDem]

I have fiber Internet (Google Fiber) and it's incredible. No wonder it's supplanting the junk cable internet I have to put up with whenever I visit my parents.

[Cory]

I still haven't heard any arguments against net neutrality that have any grounding in reality.

[MurrayBannerman]

My college town sort of has fiber. It's not all active yet and won't be until after I graduate in about a month. Bummer, but oh well.

[Lief 🗽]

How come the greatest city in the world doesn't have fiber yet? Thanks De Blasio!

[bedstuy]

How come the greatest city in the world doesn't have fiber yet? Thanks De Blasio!

We've had it for a while actually.  I don't know if the entire city does, but certainly every white neighborhood has it.