LDS Church acknowledges Joseph Smith's polygamy for the first time
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  LDS Church acknowledges Joseph Smith's polygamy for the first time
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Author Topic: LDS Church acknowledges Joseph Smith's polygamy for the first time  (Read 4176 times)
© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« on: November 11, 2014, 01:16:42 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/us/its-official-mormon-founder-had-up-to-40-wives.html?_r=0


supposedly, all the youngins Googling things is to blame: "The church’s disclosures, in a series of essays online, are part of an effort to be transparent about its history at a time when church members are increasingly encountering disturbing claims about the faith on the Internet."


there's basically no end to the amount of "disturbing" information that can be found that more or less falsifies official LDS doctrine, and since the only intra-LDS hermeneutic I've encountered is straightforward-literalist (the better theological minds split off/were excommunicated a long time ago), it's hard to see a concrete place where this will end.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 01:45:27 PM »

That's still a helluva lot better than most religions which really do just hide everything or throw in a half-hearted apology (such as John Paul II's for "every atrocity the Catholic Church has committed).

And think of it as less of a truth/falsification and more as simply clarifying things as they were and pointing out that things have since moved on.

The canon is always open, therefore there is stuff revealed, stuff being revealed, and stuff to be revealed.

Therefore records should be kept of what was, as is the case here and now, but it also does no good to dwell on these things.

That's the intent, ensuring that these things are not dwelt on.
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memphis
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 02:18:00 PM »

As anal as the Mormons are about genealogy, it's odd that they haven't done so already.
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afleitch
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 02:24:12 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 08:06:20 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.

And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
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memphis
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 10:04:37 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.

And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 11:54:27 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.

And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
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afleitch
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 01:03:11 AM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.

And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.

I've not had that experience. Even with those as a couple that we know but refused to attend our wedding. Or my gay former Mormon friend who's family don't speak with him and tried to deny access to his sons.
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 01:09:15 AM »

Reminds me of a classic opebo post.

Thanks for rudely posting a video of rituals which are one of the few things Mormons want respected. Really nice of you.

Also, while the stuff in the video may be true, the maker of the video has either done illegal things to get that footage, or he's engaging in vicious propaganda and bigotry.

Regardless, now that your cabal is about to take over the country, we want to know all about your horrible secrets, by hook or by crook.
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memphis
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 08:18:29 AM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.

And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
I have no intentions of joining any religious group, but if I were, I certainly would avoid any of them that shamelessly shun gay people while simultaneous celebrating monstrous sexual practices. Do you condone an adult man marrying multiple teenaged girls?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 12:22:38 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.
And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
I have no intentions of joining any religious group, but if I were, I certainly would avoid any of them that shamelessly shun gay people while simultaneous celebrating monstrous sexual practices. Do you condone an adult man marrying multiple teenaged girls?
No I don't condone such things, but neither does the CoJC&LDS today.  They haven't done that for over a century.  Luther was anti-Semetic, does that mean Lutheranism today is horrible?  I'll leave the past to the past and judge a church, or any other organization, by what it does today.  Now, it's treatment of gays is a valid concern as that is still part of the Mormon church today, tho when it comes to such matters it hardly is the most extreme of the denominations that still hold a traditional view of homosexuality.
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memphis
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 04:41:51 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.
And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
I have no intentions of joining any religious group, but if I were, I certainly would avoid any of them that shamelessly shun gay people while simultaneous celebrating monstrous sexual practices. Do you condone an adult man marrying multiple teenaged girls?
No I don't condone such things, but neither does the CoJC&LDS today.  They haven't done that for over a century.  Luther was anti-Semetic, does that mean Lutheranism today is horrible?  I'll leave the past to the past and judge a church, or any other organization, by what it does today.  Now, it's treatment of gays is a valid concern as that is still part of the Mormon church today, tho when it comes to such matters it hardly is the most extreme of the denominations that still hold a traditional view of homosexuality.
So you view a church as merely an organization and its founder not as a bearer of eternal truth? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of belonging to a religion?
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King
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 06:04:31 PM »

Is a 14 year old wife really a sexual predator in the old west? I feel like it would be more commonplace, though the harem would not be.
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afleitch
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2014, 06:31:07 PM »

Is a 14 year old wife really a sexual predator in the old west? I feel like it would be more commonplace, though the harem would not be.

I didn't say that.
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2014, 07:49:39 PM »

Is a 14 year old wife really a sexual predator in the old west? I feel like it would be more commonplace, though the harem would not be.

not in and of itself, but in this case Smith used his cult of personality to threaten people with eternal damnation if they would not hand over their wives/daughters.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2014, 12:05:05 AM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.
And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
I have no intentions of joining any religious group, but if I were, I certainly would avoid any of them that shamelessly shun gay people while simultaneous celebrating monstrous sexual practices. Do you condone an adult man marrying multiple teenaged girls?
No I don't condone such things, but neither does the CoJC&LDS today.  They haven't done that for over a century.  Luther was anti-Semetic, does that mean Lutheranism today is horrible?  I'll leave the past to the past and judge a church, or any other organization, by what it does today.  Now, it's treatment of gays is a valid concern as that is still part of the Mormon church today, tho when it comes to such matters it hardly is the most extreme of the denominations that still hold a traditional view of homosexuality.
So you view a church as merely an organization and its founder not as a bearer of eternal truth? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of belonging to a religion?
Whatever else Joseph Smith was, charlatan, prophet, or a mix, he was a man and all men are subject to error.  The Divine clearly has not chosen to present an unambiguous source of eternal truth that would be made undeniably clear as being that source to us humans.  While we cannot fully know the mind of God, it's fairly clear to me that ey desires humanity to examine ethics critically rather than simply follow rote rules, tho an early part of ey's education of us humans was to provide such rules as examples of why such a system does not work well for beings such as us who have free will but lack the omniscience of the Divine.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2014, 12:09:31 AM »

Tweed, weren't you once flirting with Mormonism? I vaguely remember a thread about it a while back.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2014, 03:30:23 PM »

Man makes up a religion. As part of that he gets to legitimise being a sexual predator by gifting himself a harem.
And yet despite that, the fact is that as a group Mormons are probably some of the nicest people one can meet, so long as you don't meet any of those that still practice polygamy.
Being nice is a poor substitute for condemning sexual predators.
So are you planning on joining the same church as Chris Hansen?
I have no intentions of joining any religious group, but if I were, I certainly would avoid any of them that shamelessly shun gay people while simultaneous celebrating monstrous sexual practices. Do you condone an adult man marrying multiple teenaged girls?
No I don't condone such things, but neither does the CoJC&LDS today.  They haven't done that for over a century.  Luther was anti-Semetic, does that mean Lutheranism today is horrible?  I'll leave the past to the past and judge a church, or any other organization, by what it does today.  Now, it's treatment of gays is a valid concern as that is still part of the Mormon church today, tho when it comes to such matters it hardly is the most extreme of the denominations that still hold a traditional view of homosexuality.
So you view a church as merely an organization and its founder not as a bearer of eternal truth? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of belonging to a religion?

The Mormons don't hold Joseph Smith as the holder of eternal truth, either.  They're a continuing revelation religion.  Not everything is Protestantism and it's sola scriptura commitment to one truth, don't just lump religions together.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2014, 11:36:51 PM »

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About time someone here got it right.
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afleitch
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2014, 01:13:18 PM »
« Edited: November 15, 2014, 01:32:37 PM by afleitch »

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About time someone here got it right.

This particular 'revelation' lends particular credence to the once contemporary understanding that Mormonism was initially a sex cult.

EDIT: I'll modify this a little. It would be more correct to say that Joseph Smith was clearly, by not only modern but contemporary standards, a sexual predator who manipulated men and women through contrived 'doctrine' for his own sexual desires. We know that Joseph Smith married his friends wives, his friends daughters, his wives maids and impressionable young girls one of whom he would later marry; Mary Rawlins. Some famously said no, despite experiencing what we would now under stand to be sexual harassment; Nancy Rigdon or Sarah Pratt who he publicly slandered. Joseph often explained that an angel of the Lord had revealed the doctrine of plural marriage to him three times since 1834. He would always say how repugnant he was at first and then said that the final time the angel brandished a sword and said he had to obey this or would be slaughtered. Sure Joseph.
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