Opinion of Queen Mary I of England
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:01:56 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  History (Moderator: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Opinion of Queen Mary I of England
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: What is your opinion of Queen Mary I of England
#1
FF
 
#2
HP
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 26

Author Topic: Opinion of Queen Mary I of England  (Read 6649 times)
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: November 11, 2014, 09:18:21 PM »

What is your opinion of Queen Mary I of England, also known as Mary Tudor, Bloody Mary, and the Catholic Queen?
Logged
Spamage
spamage
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,821
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 01:37:23 AM »

While a terrible person for her murder of the Protestants, she is often over-vilified.

Henry VIII and Elizabeth both probably put more people to death than her. Also, the root of her contemporary unpopularity was not her religion, but her foreign marriage and the difficulty of harvests during this period. Furthermore when you look at her early life (her parent's divorce, forced to be a servant for Elizabeth, almost fled during the reign of Edward VI) her paranoia makes much more sense and due to this I feel sympathy for her, not hatred.
Logged
Cassius
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,591


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 03:42:39 AM »

The greatest Queen in English history. The definition of FF.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,188
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 07:10:13 AM »
« Edited: November 12, 2014, 07:12:49 AM by CrabCake »

over-vilified by Elizabeth and her propagandists; and definitely unlucky in the series of lousy harvests stirring public resentment and strife.

That said, pretty lousy in her military adventures and was in the pocket of Spain. HQ
Logged
DemPGH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,755
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 11:31:20 AM »

The very worst, IMO, just beneath John. John possibly had some mental issues, though, I've read.

Frankly, if I were a practicing Catholic I would go out of my way to repudiate her. She did a lot of damage to the Church through her actions. Yes, it's easy to bang up on Mary Tudor personally and politically and in terms of her accomplishments, but it really was a horror show, and the fact that it's easy to do does not lessen that she was a nightmare. 

Having said that, there are monarchs during their time who I would have viewed favorably.
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,677


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 12:43:04 PM »

It's interesting how few people point out that she was married to the King of Spain and that, had they had kids, the two kingdoms would be in union for a time.  A pretty huge risk to national sovereignty...of course, Elizabeth ended up letting the throne be inherited by the King of Scotland, so her sister doesn't do much better on that front.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 01:22:00 PM »

It's interesting how few people point out that she was married to the King of Spain and that, had they had kids, the two kingdoms would be in union for a time.  A pretty huge risk to national sovereignty...of course, Elizabeth ended up letting the throne be inherited by the King of Scotland, so her sister doesn't do much better on that front.

Except, of course, James VI/I was a Protestant (and that England dominated the union with Scotland, which wouldn't be a case in the union with Spain).
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 01:23:17 PM »

The greatest Queen in English history. The definition of FF.

Only you could have mistaken greatness with horrid incompetency.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,188
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »

The greatest Queen in English history. The definition of FF.

Only you could have mistaken greatness with horrid incompetency.

Didn't the forum at large anoint her as the best Tudor monarch in a Survivor game?
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 09:19:36 PM »

One of the absolutely most horrid ancestors of the House of Windsor, and there have been many.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 08:18:16 AM »

One of the absolutely most horrid ancestors of the House of Windsor, and there have been many.

To be fair, Mary's presecution of Protestants was no more morally wrong than presecutions of Catholics under Henry VIII or Elizabeth I. But Henry and Elizabeth were great rulers on the "winning" side of history.

Mary was incompetent, which is enough for me to give her a negative vote. On human level, I feel somewhat sorry for her: traumatized by her childhood and youth.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 04:48:41 PM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

She shall forever be known as one of the most evil women in history. 
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 06:01:39 PM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 09:21:40 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2014, 09:33:00 PM by Lincoln Republican »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.
Logged
Cassius
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,591


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 04:32:54 AM »

The greatest Queen in English history. The definition of FF.

Only you could have mistaken greatness with horrid incompetency.

I wasn't really being particularly serious, although I would say that she was more a victim of bad luck and circumstance than incompetency per se. After all, how would she be viewed if she'd lived to the same age as Elizabeth? We can never know, but I suspect that she would have been better looked upon by posterity. Anyway, Mary is just one of those figures that I have an inordinate level of admiration for that far outstrips the merits of said figure, a la Gaius Cassius Longinus (obviously), Warwick the 'Kingmaker', Richard Rich and Pope Pius VII.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,188
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 06:56:00 AM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.

Yeah, because the other Tudors were paragons of religious tolerance Tongue
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 09:06:32 AM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.

Yeah, because the other Tudors were paragons of religious tolerance Tongue

The other Tudors is a whole other story.

Without getting into the history of all of them, I will say that Henry VIII was a tyrant and a monster.  His murders and other assorted crimes are too numerous to mention.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2014, 12:14:18 PM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.

Yeah, because the other Tudors were paragons of religious tolerance Tongue

The other Tudors is a whole other story.

Without getting into the history of all of them, I will say that Henry VIII was a tyrant and a monster.  His murders and other assorted crimes are too numerous to mention.

The thing is, Mary's actions against Protestants, while indisputably abhorrent, were somewhat magnified by historiography, while her Protestant counterparts, whose prosecution of Catholics was of no lesser degree by any means, are getting a free pass. I mean, nobody calls Elizabeth I "Bloody Elizabeth".

I guess there are three main reasons for that. Due to Protestantism victory in England, Mary was on the "losing side". Second, she reigned for just 5 years, so it's easier to associate it primarily with religious persecution. Third, well, unlike Henry or Elizabeth, both quite outstanding political figures, she was just a pitiful monarch. Cassius is right she had a very bad luck, but that doesn't change the fact she was just not fit to rule. Period. Bad luck or not.

Sad thing is, her "crimes" weren't so special. Almost the entire Europe was ruled by an organized religious persecution with a very few exceptions such as, I'm quite happy to say, Poland-Lithuania (we were even called "A State without Stakes").
Logged
Cassius
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,591


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2014, 12:41:47 PM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.

Yeah, because the other Tudors were paragons of religious tolerance Tongue

The other Tudors is a whole other story.

Without getting into the history of all of them, I will say that Henry VIII was a tyrant and a monster.  His murders and other assorted crimes are too numerous to mention.

The thing is, Mary's actions against Protestants, while indisputably abhorrent, were somewhat magnified by historiography, while her Protestant counterparts, whose prosecution of Catholics was of no lesser degree by any means, are getting a free pass. I mean, nobody calls Elizabeth I "Bloody Elizabeth".

I guess there are three main reasons for that. Due to Protestantism victory in England, Mary was on the "losing side". Second, she reigned for just 5 years, so it's easier to associate it primarily with religious persecution. Third, well, unlike Henry or Elizabeth, both quite outstanding political figures, she was just a pitiful monarch. Cassius is right she had a very bad luck, but that doesn't change the fact she was just not fit to rule. Period. Bad luck or not.

Sad thing is, her "crimes" weren't so special. Almost the entire Europe was ruled by an organized religious persecution with a very few exceptions such as, I'm quite happy to say, Poland-Lithuania (we were even called "A State without Stakes").

I object to the view that she was unfit to rule. Sure, she had some quirks, and her desire for a match with Philip II is a little bizarre in hindsight (although if you take into account her background, perhaps not), but she wasn't stupid, and she did make attempt to make strides towards reform in certain areas (trade and the currency being examples of this). Furthermore, whilst the loss of Calais is often made out to be one of the great disasters of her reign, the truth is that Calais was pretty useless by the 1550's, and was more of a burden to the exchequer than anything else. A symbolic loss? Sure, but in practical terms it was rather like having a gangrenous limb amputated.

I'd also argue that Henry VIII was not really an outstanding political figure; his reign was pretty sub-par in fact. His financial policies were a disaster, his military campaigns were costly and vainglorious and he managed near-isolate England as a power in Europe. The chief reasons for his being remembered as a 'great monarch' are because of his lengthy reign, his larger than life personality and intellect and, of course, the break with Rome and the growth of Parliamentary importance during his reign, something which later historians tended to interpret as being part of the long-process of England's evolution into a Protestant, constitutional monarchy. Which of course they thought was objectively a good thing.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,348


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2014, 04:33:00 PM »
« Edited: November 15, 2014, 04:37:59 PM by Lincoln Republican »

Another reason that Henry VIII is remembered in history is due to the fact he was married six times, and all the drama and intrigue that caused, and the impact that had on English history.

Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleves, Catherine Howard, Catherine Parr
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2014, 11:19:51 PM »

No excuses can be made for this deranged woman who had innocent people burned at the stake.

No, but if she were a Protestant burning Catholics at the stake, I doubt you would made this poll.

Now that has got to rank as one of the silliest statements I have ever read on this forum, and there have been countless stupid statements made on this forum.

Nobody, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, has any right to burn anybody else at the stake because of their religious beliefs.

That behavior is inhuman, revolting and abhorrent.

The depraved Mary Tudor well deserves her place as one of the most hated and reviled monarchs in the entire history of England, and England has a long history.

The problem is that at the time, religion and state were intertwined to such an extent that religion was sufficient to make people act as enemies of the state.  It wasn't purely the religious views of people that led to so much tyranny on both sides of the Reformation, but also the political acts such views led people to commit.
Logged
Sol
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,051
Bosnia and Herzegovina


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2014, 11:32:49 PM »

FF, opposes the Protestant Cancer.
Logged
TDAS04
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,463
Bhutan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2014, 03:51:36 PM »

Massive HP.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.047 seconds with 14 queries.