Obama to announce executive order on immigration
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  Obama to announce executive order on immigration
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New_Conservative
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« Reply #100 on: November 14, 2014, 06:39:40 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsRfrcit05M
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New_Conservative
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« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2014, 06:42:00 PM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

If you disagree with Democrats because you want to secure the border before giving amnesty to 4 million undocumented immigrants, it obviously makes you a racist. Hence if you think voter ID, which is active in basically every First World Country, should be enforced, you are a racist and are trying to suppress voters.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2014, 06:52:05 PM »

...even Romney's 27% was the third or fourth best performance for any Republican in the last 50 years.

Yes but the 2 of the 3 below Romney were because Perot was splitting the vote and the other time was Ford when Latinos were only 1% of the vote. As for Asians, Romney is the all time worst.

GOP LATINO VOTE
Bush Jr (04) 44
Reagan (80) 37
Bush Jr (00) 35
Reagan (84) 34
McCain (08) 31
Bush Sr (88) 30
Romney (12) 27
Bush Sr. (92) 25 (Perot 15)
Dole (96) 21 (Perot 9)
Ford (76) 18

GOP ASIAN VOTE
Bush Sr (92) 55 (Perot 15)
Dole (96) 48 (Perot 8 )
Bush (04) 43
Bush (00) 41
McCain (08) 35
Romney (12) 26

So in terms of the two party vote, Mitt Romney is certainly the all time loser for both Latinos and Asians. In fact they were two of the only groups that swung away from the GOP between 08 and 12. I wonder why.

Yes, I don't trust pre-1980 polls of Hispanic voters.  The margin of error was just so high.  Maybe FDR/LBJ really did win 80-90% of them, but Republicans managed to win NM about half the time between 1920 and 1970.  That was the one place the Hispanic vote was relevant to statewide elections back then.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2014, 07:21:08 PM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

No, most Latinos have no problem with illegal immigration. We love illegal immigrants: they're our friends, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and parents! We certainly don't want them to "go back to where they came from".

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ag
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« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2014, 10:51:17 PM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

If you disagree with Democrats because you want to secure the border before giving amnesty to 4 million undocumented immigrants, it obviously makes you a racist. Hence if you think voter ID, which is active in basically every First World Country, should be enforced, you are a racist and are trying to suppress voters.

Well, to be fair, it may be that you are in favor of voter ID laws because you are merely completely ignorant of the US history.
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ag
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« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2014, 10:52:57 PM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race.

Well, that pretty much says that you take offense at Hispanics in general (as this is a fairly established view among the Hispanics). Which, kind of, makes you racist, doesn't it? Your remark about the few "good Jews" notwithstanding.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #106 on: November 15, 2014, 01:09:27 AM »

I look forward to two years of Obama constantly baiting the Republicans into saying horribly racist things and/or trying to impeach him. What a legend.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2014, 01:20:40 AM »

About damn time
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2014, 02:01:48 AM »

This is not the 1950's, you can bring bring a WMD in a suitcase now. Open borders is just not a safe route to take in the post 911 world. We have to police the inflow of people into this country in order to protect the people. And we cannot do that effectively whenever there is a massive influx.


I was wondering how long it would before I had to contend with your dismissively insulting responses and characteristic conveniently defined strawmen. Tongue

Because yeah, increasing legal immigration to allow even a million a year more legal immigrants would overwhelm the border agents who already process roughly sixty million tourist entries into this country so as to make it a certainty that suitcase WMDs would make it through where they wouldn't before.

There are some reasonable arguments that can be made in favor of immigration limits.  Border security isn't one of them.  Quite the reverse as it gives smugglers another revenue stream, and any WMDs sent here are almost certainly going to arrive via smuggling rather being sneaked in with the checked luggage of a person arriving here legally.

I am tired of having to either make a wall of text every time I post on this issue or be pestered about postiions I don't hold or accused of haing said stuff that I have said the exact oppositeof with posters who I have discussed the matter with several times over several years. Roll Eyes

1. I never said expanding legal immigration posed a problem for the border patrol. I said illegal immigration in large numbers make it easier for a bad actor to slip through.

2. I am not against increasing legal immigration if the numbers dictate such would be mutually beneficial.

3. I have repeatedly stated over and over over again, including in conversations that involved yourself, that the the calls for more border security were a shiny object diversion and would further border security would yield diminishing results. Once again I was responding to the point about havign completely open borders, which is also just as impractical.
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RedSLC
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« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2014, 05:20:33 AM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

I'm guessing you also met plenty of other gay people who are against gay marriage at these events, too. So, by your logic, extreme opposition to gay rights can't possibly be homophobic in nature!

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CrabCake
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« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2014, 05:57:55 AM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

If you disagree with Democrats because you want to secure the border before giving amnesty to 4 million undocumented immigrants, it obviously makes you a racist. Hence if you think voter ID, which is active in basically every First World Country, should be enforced, you are a racist and are trying to suppress voters.

The UK
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
Switzerland
etc.
Other countries with national (universal) ID, so it doesn't matter:
France
Germany
Italy
Spain
etc.
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jfern
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« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2014, 06:08:26 AM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

If you disagree with Democrats because you want to secure the border before giving amnesty to 4 million undocumented immigrants, it obviously makes you a racist. Hence if you think voter ID, which is active in basically every First World Country, should be enforced, you are a racist and are trying to suppress voters.

The UK
Australia
New Zealand
Japan
Switzerland
etc.
Other countries with national (universal) ID, so it doesn't matter:
France
Germany
Italy
Spain
etc.

Not to mention that Hungary tried to introduce a form of voter suppression that the courts then ruled unconstitutional. The form of voter suppression? Voter registration. Yup, what we take for granted in 49 states, and think North Dakota is odd for not having.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2014, 11:30:07 PM »

And while he is at it, couldn't he use prosecutorial discretion to decriminalize marijuana? I hope he does that as well. He should do it at the same time as he does this.

Federal prosecutors don't waste time on marijuana possession save as a tool to compel people to become informants on dealers and/or as part of plea bargaining with dealers.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2014, 11:47:16 PM »

Once again I was responding to the point about having completely open borders, which is also just as impractical.
  You do realize that people who are calling for open borders aren't calling for eliminating ICE, they're calling for eliminating any quota on legal immigration and only prevent criminals or other such undesirables from obtaining entry, don't you?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #114 on: November 15, 2014, 11:59:49 PM »

Once again I was responding to the point about having completely open borders, which is also just as impractical.
  You do realize that people who are calling for open borders aren't calling for eliminating ICE, they're calling for eliminating any quota on legal immigration and only prevent criminals or other such undesirables from obtaining entry, don't you?

I was responding to a specific poster's point about increases in border security having made the situation worse regarding the number of illegal aliens present in the country. That may very well be the case, but in a post 911 world returning the rather lax security present thirty or forty years ago isn't practical.

That was my entire point, nothing more, nothing less. Quit trying to extrapolate things I never said and do not agree with from that point. Roll Eyes
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Frodo
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« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2014, 01:25:50 AM »
« Edited: November 16, 2014, 01:28:06 AM by Frodo »

A Democratic congressman is claiming there are now enough votes in the House to pass a bipartisan immigration overhaul, with dozens of Republican supporters.  

Imagine what else could be accomplished if Speaker Boehner put aside the 'majority of the majority' rule...    
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2014, 02:18:33 AM »

Hastert said on C-span the other day that was never any thing known as the "Hastert Rule", just that a Speaker couldn't long exist as Speaker if he didn't retain the support of a majority of his conference. Seem to endorse having the occassionall all Dems+30 or 40 Republican vote on some things.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2014, 09:03:43 AM »

Hastert said on C-span the other day that was never any thing known as the "Hastert Rule", just that a Speaker couldn't long exist as Speaker if he didn't retain the support of a majority of his conference. Seem to endorse having the occassionall all Dems+30 or 40 Republican vote on some things.

In the last Congress, Boehner did jettison the Hastert rule and let some bills go through with predominantly Democratic support.

How do people think he will treat immigration? It seems like republicans have not considered this an issue to give up on, unlike the budget. They'd rather let Obama make it an issue in the 2016 campaign.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #118 on: November 17, 2014, 01:10:43 AM »

I would prefer he didn't on immigration. I would rather they form an independent bill or series of bills and send them to the Senate and preferrably go to conference, form a compromise and put it to a vote in both chambers. That is the traditional process.

Just passing a comprehensive bill that the Senate passed without any changes, or amendments, that is also a million pages long sounds a lot like how healthcare was passed. And to the extent that consultants, business and Boehner are pushed to just do that and "get it out of the way" ignore the downside risk from removing the moral standing on which to criticize the process in which Obamacare was passed.

The problem isn't the following of the Hastert rule, it is the doing absolutely nothing.

The place where the Haster Rule is the problem is minimum wage a rather simple change and can be done with a smaller text. Minimum wage would pass if put to an up or down vote or at least some form of minimum wage increase would. A good number of Republicans in PA, NY, NJ, OH, MI and ILL as well as some swing district Reps elsewhere would vote for it. Minimum wage is ironically more difficult in the Senate now.
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CountryClassSF
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« Reply #119 on: November 17, 2014, 08:36:57 AM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

I'm guessing you also met plenty of other gay people who are against gay marriage at these events, too. So, by your logic, extreme opposition to gay rights can't possibly be homophobic in nature!

This might shock you, but we conservatives don't go around asking folks what their sexual orientation is


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RedSLC
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« Reply #120 on: November 17, 2014, 08:53:37 AM »

I take offense for those who suggest opposition to amnesty is about race. I can't count the number of Hispanic Americans I've met at tea party rallies, at local GOP events, etc. who oppose amnesty.

Greg Abbott won 44% of the Hispanic vote in Texas, for heaven's sake. How well did John McCain do?

I'm guessing you also met plenty of other gay people who are against gay marriage at these events, too. So, by your logic, extreme opposition to gay rights can't possibly be homophobic in nature!
This might shock you, but we conservatives don't go around asking folks what their sexual orientation is

1. Fixed your quote (you're welsome).

2.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2014, 12:03:50 PM »

Sounds like its gonna happen tomorrow or Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/19/obama-immigration_n_6185038.html
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MurrayBannerman
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« Reply #122 on: November 19, 2014, 02:13:05 PM »

Poll just showed on CNBC showed at Latino support for this is 43-37. Black support is the largest at 65-12.
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Mehmentum
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« Reply #123 on: November 19, 2014, 03:26:50 PM »

Poll just showed on CNBC showed at Latino support for this is 43-37. Black support is the largest at 65-12.
Judging from those numbers, Republicans seem to be unanimously against this, while most Democrats are in favor, but a minority (1/3 to 1/4) are undecided.
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porky88
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« Reply #124 on: November 19, 2014, 05:34:25 PM »

Poll just showed on CNBC showed at Latino support for this is 43-37. Black support is the largest at 65-12.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/poll-immigration-executive-action-113029.html?hp=l6_4

According to politico, the margin of error for Latino support is plus or minus 9.3 points. That's a pretty huge margin.

I suspect those who oppose the President will disapprove no matter what. Those who support him will approve no matter what.
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