Catholicism Fading in Latin America
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2024, 09:28:38 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: World politics is up Schmitt creek)
  Catholicism Fading in Latin America
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Catholicism Fading in Latin America  (Read 8063 times)
Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
Libertas
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,899
Finland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2015, 01:15:26 AM »

I'm glad Catholicism is fading....not happy that it's being replaced by even worse Protestantism.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,580
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2015, 01:22:11 AM »

Seeing as how:

-I'm an evangelical, albeit a far more liberal one than most.
-I know plenty of people who also are who were raised Catholic.
-Seeing as how the emergent church is growing exponentially and the demographics its gaining amongst are also abandoning Catholicism in droves, it's safe to say this is not isolated and part of a much bigger trend.

I think it'd be a bit hypocritical of me to condemn this. I can't exactly say "Oh no no people in Minnesota can convert from Catholicism all they want but not in Latin America, that's wrong!"
Logged
Adam Griffin
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,085
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2015, 02:35:13 AM »

I'm reading through the report in full and found this interesting tidbit.





Uruguay is not surprising, as it's the most progressive of Latin American countries. 

It's not that. It's that Protestants were so much more against contraception than Catholics.

So could this trend be fueled predominantly by some sense that the Catholic Church isn't being proactive enough in some area (whether that be opposing elements such as contraception, or simply recruiting/spreading the Good Word throughout the world)? A stat like that basically makes me think that extremists are leaving the Catholic Church to join more ideological congregations.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,210


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2015, 11:28:04 AM »

So could this trend be fueled predominantly by some sense that the Catholic Church isn't being proactive enough in some area (whether that be opposing elements such as contraception, or simply recruiting/spreading the Good Word throughout the world)? A stat like that basically makes me think that extremists are leaving the Catholic Church to join more ideological congregations.

It's more likely fuel by the fact, that the Catholic Church are losing its de facto religious monopoly and it still need to attempt be broad enough to the entire population to keep all its faithfuls. While Protestants can grow just by delivering religious niche products. The Catholic Church could become more reactionary, but it would just mean it would lose liberal members instead.
Logged
Sol
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,021
Bosnia and Herzegovina


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2015, 05:22:48 PM »

Isn't a lot of this due to indigenous groups converting?
Logged
DC Al Fine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,085
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2015, 06:48:24 PM »

Isn't a lot of this due to indigenous groups converting?

Yes and no.

A member of the Presbyterian Church of Brazil recently started attending my church. He describes the situation as follows.

There are two similar sized groups joining the Protestant churches.
a) Indigenous people. This has a lot to do with historical grievances. They convert almost exclusively to Pentecostalism

b) Working class/poor Hispanics who were mostly unchurched or underchurched Catholics. Their conversions are largely due to strong Protestant evangelizing efforts, and charitable work in the slums. They are mostly Pentecostal with mainline* minority.

Both a & b have issues with prosperity theology in varying degrees.

There is also a smaller group of who are converting for the same reason that many American mainliners left for evangelicalism; lack of rigour in their home church. These folks are mostly middle class and join the mainline churches.

*"Mainline" here refers to liturgy not theology. My acquaintance tells me that liberal Protestantism is almost non-existent in Brazil and I assume this is true for the rest of Latin America.
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,174
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2015, 08:11:11 PM »

My acquaintance tells me that liberal Protestantism is almost non-existent in Brazil and I assume this is true for the rest of Latin America.

Might be a risky assumption.
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,763
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2015, 11:19:42 PM »

Evangelicalism continues to spread and ruin the world, news at 11.

It isn't ruining the world. If you want to see who's ruining the world, look at the folks who attacked the satire place in Paris.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2015, 12:16:17 AM »

Evangelicalism continues to spread and ruin the world, news at 11.

It isn't ruining the world. If you want to see who's ruining the world, look at the folks who attacked the satire place in Paris.

The world can get ruined by multiple groups at once. That's the downside of being as big a place as the world is.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,580
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2015, 02:14:15 AM »

I believe Brazil has a non-insignificant Lutheran population, as there were many German settlers there. Of course not all Lutherans are liberal...

Also I believe a bunch of the indigenous people in Guatemala are Methodist as their missionaries were pretty prevalent there, but I'll assume they're nowhere near as liberal as northern Methodist. But yeah there are mainline Protestants in Latin America.

Also it's not too uncommon here for Hispanics to be ELCA, not saying that most or a majority are, but it's common enough so that it's not considered weird or unusual. ELCA works with a lot of immigrants groups so some of them end up converting, and they get a decent number of first or second generation American converts too.
Logged
Sol
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,021
Bosnia and Herzegovina


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2015, 08:43:44 AM »

I believe Brazil has a non-insignificant Lutheran population, as there were many German settlers there. Of course not all Lutherans are liberal...

Also I believe a bunch of the indigenous people in Guatemala are Methodist as their missionaries were pretty prevalent there, but I'll assume they're nowhere near as liberal as northern Methodist. But yeah there are mainline Protestants in Latin America.

Also it's not too uncommon here for Hispanics to be ELCA, not saying that most or a majority are, but it's common enough so that it's not considered weird or unusual. ELCA works with a lot of immigrants groups so some of them end up converting, and they get a decent number of first or second generation American converts too.

I was under the impression that a lot of Indigenous Guatemalans were mostly Pentecostals/Evangelical Protestants.
Logged
Oldiesfreak1854
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,674
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2015, 09:24:44 AM »

Probably in favor of Marxism.
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2015, 11:33:49 AM »


Are you literally retarded?
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,763
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2015, 02:47:02 PM »

I believe Brazil has a non-insignificant Lutheran population, as there were many German settlers there. Of course not all Lutherans are liberal...

Also I believe a bunch of the indigenous people in Guatemala are Methodist as their missionaries were pretty prevalent there, but I'll assume they're nowhere near as liberal as northern Methodist. But yeah there are mainline Protestants in Latin America.

Also it's not too uncommon here for Hispanics to be ELCA, not saying that most or a majority are, but it's common enough so that it's not considered weird or unusual. ELCA works with a lot of immigrants groups so some of them end up converting, and they get a decent number of first or second generation American converts too.

I was under the impression that a lot of Indigenous Guatemalans were mostly Pentecostals/Evangelical Protestants.

And El Salvadorians too.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2015, 03:18:21 PM »

I believe Brazil has a non-insignificant Lutheran population, as there were many German settlers there. Of course not all Lutherans are liberal...

Also I believe a bunch of the indigenous people in Guatemala are Methodist as their missionaries were pretty prevalent there, but I'll assume they're nowhere near as liberal as northern Methodist. But yeah there are mainline Protestants in Latin America.

Also it's not too uncommon here for Hispanics to be ELCA, not saying that most or a majority are, but it's common enough so that it's not considered weird or unusual. ELCA works with a lot of immigrants groups so some of them end up converting, and they get a decent number of first or second generation American converts too.

The idea of 'mainline' is less relevant outside a US-American context. The 'mainline' churches are those that at one time held a specific cultural and social position in American life.
Logged
Lankester Merrin
fathermerrin2013
Rookie
**
Posts: 21
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2015, 11:29:17 PM »

The growth in protestantism is all very disturbing. And if you are asking 'why?' then you should be aware that it's rather self explanatory.

Yep, those bible-reading/bible-believing Protestants are a real problem.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2015, 04:36:59 PM »

The growth in protestantism is all very disturbing. And if you are asking 'why?' then you should be aware that it's rather self explanatory.

Yep, those bible-reading/bible-believing Protestants are a real problem.

Characterizing one's type of Christianity as 'Bible-believing', by implication characterizing other types of Christianity as not so, is creepy. I say this as a Protestant.
Logged
Lankester Merrin
fathermerrin2013
Rookie
**
Posts: 21
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2015, 05:15:54 PM »

The growth in protestantism is all very disturbing. And if you are asking 'why?' then you should be aware that it's rather self explanatory.
Yep, those bible-reading/bible-believing Protestants are a real problem.
Characterizing one's type of Christianity as 'Bible-believing', by implication characterizing other types of Christianity as not so, is creepy. I say this as a Protestant.

To be clear, I wasn't saying there aren't Catholics who read their bibles, it is just that Protestants are generally more likely to be bible-readers and therefore bible-believing and therefore more likely to know what the bible says and therefore more likely to adhere to it...which has a slight tendency to be seen as offensive to the world.

And I say this as a Christian who accepts both Catholics and Protestants as brothers and who believes that scripture is the inspired word of God written down by the writers of the bible as they were carried along by the Spirit.

But, for those "Christians" who reject the bible as the world of God and go off and create their own religion, I don't have anything to do with them.  Believing that the bible is the word of God is the dividing line for it is written:

1Cor 14:36-38 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2015, 05:19:12 PM »

The growth in protestantism is all very disturbing. And if you are asking 'why?' then you should be aware that it's rather self explanatory.
Yep, those bible-reading/bible-believing Protestants are a real problem.
Characterizing one's type of Christianity as 'Bible-believing', by implication characterizing other types of Christianity as not so, is creepy. I say this as a Protestant.

To be clear, I wasn't saying there aren't Catholics who read their bibles, it is just that Protestants are generally more likely to be bible-readers and therefore bible-believing and therefore more likely to know what the bible says and therefore more likely to adhere to it...which has a slight tendency to be seen as offensive to the world.

And I say this as a Christian who accepts both Catholics and Protestants as brothers and who believes that scripture is the inspired word of God written down by the writers of the bible as they were carried along by the Spirit.

But, for those "Christians" who reject the bible as the world of God and go off and create their own religion, I don't have anything to do with them.  Believing that the bible is the word of God is the dividing line for it is written:

1Cor 14:36-38 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.



Okay. That at least makes more sense and is less needlessly exclusionary than the way I've usually heard the term 'Bible-believing' used.
Logged
Lankester Merrin
fathermerrin2013
Rookie
**
Posts: 21
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2015, 05:41:17 PM »

Okay. That at least makes more sense and is less needlessly exclusionary than the way I've usually heard the term 'Bible-believing' used.

Then let's just take the term more or less at face value - bible-believing means belief in the bible as the written word of God. 

And the world is not offended by "Christians" who don't believe the bible is the word of God, but it is quite offended by Christians who do.  It's the dividing line.
Logged
Oldiesfreak1854
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,674
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2015, 06:57:25 PM »

No; I understand Marxism is very popular in Latin America.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2015, 03:25:21 AM »

But, for those "Christians" who reject the bible as the world of God and go off and create their own religion, I don't have anything to do with them.  Believing that the bible is the word of God is the dividing line for it is written:

1Cor 14:36-38 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

So Paul determined what books would be in the canonical Bible?  That would be an astonishing claim, and not one I think you are trying to doodle here, yet without it, then even for those who accept 1 Corinthians as the word of not merely Paul, but of God, one cannot logically use the passage as a basis for claiming the entire traditional Protestant canon is.  But beyond that, 1 Cor 14:36 can be used as a basis for thinking that there may be texts outside the canon that are the word of God, or even texts outside the Judeo-Christian framework.

Incidentally, my opinion of Paul has considerably warmed in the past few years, but only with regard to those letters or portions thereof that he actually wrote.  The textual evidence strongly suggests 1 Cor 14:34-35 is an non-Pauline addition to a genuine Pauline epistle.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2015, 02:22:35 AM »


Latin American Marxists often don't feel the need to stop being Catholic.
Logged
politicus
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,174
Denmark


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2015, 03:01:18 AM »


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.06 seconds with 12 queries.