Plato's theory of the forms?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 03:13:12 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: World politics is up Schmitt creek)
  Plato's theory of the forms?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Are instantiated things just shadows of an alternate world of perfect forms of beauty, justice, and shapes, etc?
#1
Yea
 
#2
Nay
 
#3
Other/Dont Know/Dont Care/Depends/Etc.
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 16

Author Topic: Plato's theory of the forms?  (Read 1383 times)
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,806


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: November 16, 2014, 12:18:51 AM »

Discuss.
Logged
anvi
anvikshiki
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,400
Netherlands


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 10:56:21 AM »

No.  I think Aristotle dealt a powerful objection to Plato's forms, not through his use of Parmenides' "third-man" argument but through his critique of the notion of "sharing" in the first book of the Metaphysics.  There is something to the third-man argument too, as it calls into question the idea that the Forms are kinds of self-predicated genus, and such self-predication is uninformative.  But the real problem with Plato's forms is that nothing is really added to our understanding of natural things by saying they "copy" a transcendent form, since one thing can copy or share a likeness with something that does not even exist.  Instead, when we do speak of things that share features with one another, that commonality is exhibited in their instantiations (in rebos), and saying they come from some other realm of forms is superfluous. 

It's interesting that the notion of Platonic forms seems first to have arisen in connection with Plato's theory of values--his idea that certain moral universals like courage, piety and so on had to exist.  He gets pushed toward an overarching naturalistic theory as the Dialogues progress, but even in the Parmenides, he can't really extract himself from the problems and implications of the extended theory.
Logged
Mopsus
MOPolitico
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.71, S: -1.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 10:17:28 PM »

I subscribe to a variation of the Theory of the Forms, but one in which the Forms are cognitive concepts rather than things with a separate existence.
Logged
Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,751
Italy


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: 1.74

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 11:13:34 PM »
« Edited: November 16, 2014, 11:17:32 PM by smilo »

No and it is dangerous to believe so (Existence exists) (Objectivist hack who has not spent extensive time studying philosophy outside of a couple intro classes)
Logged
DemPGH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,755
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 11:07:54 AM »

No, not at all. If I'm applying the concept correctly, and I avoided subjects like this in favor of those that were more concrete, no ideal form of anything exists anywhere. Who made it, anyway? Somebody had to. God? I also don't think intangible things exist in concrete form anywhere either. What happens is, "things" get made by people or sentient beings who need them. And then there is a systematic process of improving them or adapting them.
Logged
Mopsus
MOPolitico
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.71, S: -1.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 11:15:57 AM »

[N]o ideal form of anything exists anywhere.

I disagree, as it's certainly possible to construct an ideal form of something in one's mind.
Logged
DemPGH
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,755
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 04:59:43 PM »

[N]o ideal form of anything exists anywhere.

I disagree, as it's certainly possible to construct an ideal form of something in one's mind.

The problem I see with that is that if there is an ideal, that implies one. So if you ask everyone you ran into to imagine the ideal random object, I bet you wouldn't get two alike.

It's like religion. One of the things that always bothered me was that God's Word shouldn't fracture into all these thousands of sects and their disagreements and so on based on cryptic snippets written down eons ago. It should be like 2 x 2 = 4.
Logged
Mopsus
MOPolitico
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.71, S: -1.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 05:29:05 PM »

[N]o ideal form of anything exists anywhere.

I disagree, as it's certainly possible to construct an ideal form of something in one's mind.

The problem I see with that is that if there is an ideal, that implies one. So if you ask everyone you ran into to imagine the ideal random object, I bet you wouldn't get two alike.

I agree, and I actually don't see anything wrong with that.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Such squabbling is the result of human nature, which seems to be naturally inclined to sectarianism. However, a number of philosophers and students of religion have pointed out the broad similarities that exist between the major religions, aka "the perennial philosophy".
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 06:05:45 PM »

It's like religion. One of the things that always bothered me was that God's Word shouldn't fracture into all these thousands of sects and their disagreements and so on based on cryptic snippets written down eons ago. It should be like 2 x 2 = 4.

Such squabbling is the result of human nature, which seems to be naturally inclined to sectarianism. However, a number of philosophers and students of religion have pointed out the broad similarities that exist between the major religions, aka "the perennial philosophy".
[/quote]

Also, my view is that the Divine seeks to reach us in the manner we are most receptive to in order for us to learn the essential truths.  We'd need only one religion only if we were all interchangeable parts rather than distinct individuals.  The Divine will even guide us towards atheism if that is the path that will best lead us to the truth.
Logged
AutumnLeaf
Rookie
**
Posts: 26
Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 10:57:01 PM »

All the things have a ideal shape in the world of the ideas.
Logged
Georg Ebner
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 408
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2015, 05:03:25 PM »

PLATO's "ideas" are meant as values/concepts and not as "forms" (which were brought in by Aristoteles).
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.039 seconds with 14 queries.