The mess that is the Pacific (and its Constitution)
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  The mess that is the Pacific (and its Constitution)
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Author Topic: The mess that is the Pacific (and its Constitution)  (Read 2239 times)
windjammer
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 03:01:51 PM »

Here's what a merger would look like if it were to happen today under my proposal. It would probably make sense to phase out tenth Senate seat at some point but that would take some time. The regions would remain as constitutional units, federally speaking, but in practice would have the same regional government.

Crudely-drawn infographic:


So they would have still their 2 regional senators?
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Oakvale
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 03:03:15 PM »

Here's what a merger would look like if it were to happen today under my proposal. It would probably make sense to phase out tenth Senate seat at some point but that would take some time. The regions would remain as constitutional units, federally speaking, but in practice would have the same regional government.

Crudely-drawn infographic:


So they would have still their 2 regional senators?

Yeah, in practice this would look like LeBron being Governor of the Midwest and Governor of the Pacific, but Cranberry and TNF remaining Senators for the Pacific and Midwest respectively.

This would be a temporary solution as we, hopefully, move towards a more elegant fix.
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windjammer
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 03:10:48 PM »

Hmmm,
An another way to fix the Pacific problems would be to elect Averroes as their Governor. And Zuwo, Spamage and? to the council.
I don't think this region is lost.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 03:12:24 PM »

^ Maybe. The problem is that even at its best the Pacific has always struggled with activity. Part of that is because it was so often a monocultural region.

This may have all been covered before - I didn't follow the last great merger debate as closely as I might have because at that time I believed that it was unnecessary - that the Pacific could survive and thrive. I've since become convinced by the pro-merger line - that the population of Atlasia just can't support five active regions.
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LeBron
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 03:31:09 PM »

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I've always opposed the merge and I still do. Back in August when the referendum was taking place, both the Midwest and Pacific were struggling, but since then the Midwest has improved significantly in activity and it will stay that way under my leadership.

In other words, I refuse to "bail out" the Pacific and I especially refuse to just give up on the Midwest. We've shown we can easily survive on our own, and the Pacific can to if they work for it.
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Poirot
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 03:31:33 PM »

If you merge two regional governments (an effective merger), that area should only get one regional senator.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 03:33:47 PM »

I'll just remind everyone (yet again) that FTRA is the only lasting pathway forward for any solution being discussed here that revolves around two regions interacting in such a way. Al does bring up an interesting point about the 10 Senator issue, though, and that would ultimately have to be considered. The first step, however, would be for (one or two?) more regions to ratify FTRA and then proceed through consent process, alteration of Constitution in any other needed ways like mentioned above, and then additional public votes on the merger of any regions.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 06:44:23 PM »

Nay I say, nay to all of this!
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 08:14:38 PM »

I initially supported a ME/MW merger to make them both more competitive... but in this instance.

I would support a confederation of the MW and the PA in the interim, leading to a full merging of the two regions and removing one Senate seat (I prefer an odd number anyway Tongue). In relation to governance of the confederation, I would suggest the appointment of an administrator, with the existing MW/PA legislative bodies merging immediately.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2014, 09:16:08 PM »

Why not just slim down Pacific government? Does it need a legal officer? Can't the Governor do what little work is required for that post? Does it need an elected legislature? Historically many regions - including the Pacific if memory serves - had general assembles of all citizens.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2014, 09:19:34 PM »

Why not just slim down Pacific government? Does it need a legal officer? Can't the Governor do what little work is required for that post? Does it need an elected legislature? Historically many regions - including the Pacific if memory serves - had general assembles of all citizens.

Bacon King proposed this to me a while back. Smaller government seems sensible.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2014, 09:21:17 PM »

I've just sworn in under the assumption that the seat that I was elected to via write-ins nearly a month ago was never declared vacant.

I never declared it vacant- it was being kept warm for you. Smiley
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Vega
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2014, 09:38:41 PM »

For the record, I support the merger 100%. I hope it happens, though I doubt it will.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 09:42:02 PM »

I support an annexation of the Midwest.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2014, 10:35:43 PM »

Look we just need the Dream team back in charge. This is what happens when you refuse to make me king of the world.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2014, 10:57:04 PM »


I'm just glad you're saying something!
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Gass3268
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« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2014, 10:59:59 PM »

I don't know why the new region would be called "The Pacific" if its the region that's dying. If we do have a merger it should be the Midwest and all of the states should get fun new names! Cheesy
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Spamage
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« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2014, 11:08:49 PM »

I don't know why the new region would be called "The Pacific" if its the region that's dying. If we do have a merger it should be the Midwest and all of the states should get fun new names! Cheesy

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Senator Cris
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2014, 03:06:09 PM »


Dear Governor, this wouldn't be an "annexation of the Midwest ". It would be a merger. Tongue
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Simfan34
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« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2014, 03:15:25 PM »


Dear Governor, this wouldn't be an "annexation of the Midwest ". It would be a merger. Tongue

Tongue


I'm glad too. What more is there to say? I've been swamped in work for weeks and often barely have had time to eat, not to mention spend extended amounts of time here.  This oughtn't to have happened, however, and I'm sorry that it did. I do agree, however, that we need to look at the underlying systemic issues at work here; I will add that for close to three years now, I think, I have called for there to be four regions, and that would obviously be a step forward.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2014, 05:34:29 PM »

Why not just slim down Pacific government? Does it need a legal officer? Can't the Governor do what little work is required for that post? Does it need an elected legislature? Historically many regions - including the Pacific if memory serves - had general assembles of all citizens.

I've advocated for a Pacific legislature (rather than a universal one) for years but given the dire state of the region removing barriers to activity (like having to win a seat) might actually not be a bad idea. The converse proposition is that elections foster activity but that, er, objectively seems to have failed. I can admit when I was wrong.

If the mooted return of districts comes up, though, I'd like regional legislatures to have a say (and thus take on far more importance than a mere stepping stone to higher office) so perhaps rethinking the proposed merger at that point might be worthwhile.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2014, 08:00:23 PM »

The new region would be more than just the Pacific Coast and definitely not "the Midwest". I suggest calling the new region "West".

...all of the states should get fun new names! Cheesy

Hey, I actually like that idea! I may not be a Midwesterner, but let me give you one very big *hughughug*, Gass Grin
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Oakvale
oakvale
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« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2014, 09:00:39 PM »

The new region would be more than just the Pacific Coast and definitely not "the Midwest". I suggest calling the new region "West".

Thanks man, no-one's actually ever suggested that.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2014, 07:20:35 PM »

With the second round of inactive messes in the Pacific now upon us, we can at least be grateful that there is a judicial officer in place to handle things if the worst comes to pass.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2014, 08:26:25 PM »

With the second round of inactive messes in the Pacific now upon us, we can at least be grateful that there is a judicial officer in place to handle things if the worst comes to pass.

Indeed. And we can be glad the Governor appointed a highly qualified individual to the post. Smiley
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