Youth Employment Act (Passed)
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  Youth Employment Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: Youth Employment Act (Passed)  (Read 5244 times)
bore
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« on: November 20, 2014, 09:56:01 AM »
« edited: December 15, 2014, 04:11:43 PM by Senator bore »

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Sponsor: Deus

Just a general warning, we have a lot of legislation to get through and the queue is clogged with Deus and TNF bills, so, until there's an adapted clogging rule I'll be pretty rigourously enforcing time limits.
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TNF
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 10:52:08 AM »

The Section in question bans the employment of persons aged 14 and 15. So in effect, this is a bill to legalize child labor.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 11:51:54 AM »

I'm very interested in hearing the sponsor's argumentation for this bill... Where I am from, child labor under 15 is illegal, and I'm kind of not the biggest opponent to it.
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windjammer
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 04:29:21 PM »

You support child labor???
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 05:14:21 PM »

I really wish Senators would submit legislation that has a hope of passing.

Enabling child labour is not empowering them. What empowers youth is education, not being sent out to work.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 06:53:54 PM »

I really wish Senators would submit legislation that has a hope of passing.

Enabling child labour is not empowering them. What empowers youth is education, not being sent out to work.

What is wrong in the left's mind with teens having part-time jobs? While I agree with Senator Polnut on education empowering our youth, working provides valuable life experience that shouldn't be denied to 14 and 15 year olds that education can't totally provide.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 07:12:55 PM »

I really wish Senators would submit legislation that has a hope of passing.

Enabling child labour is not empowering them. What empowers youth is education, not being sent out to work.

What is wrong in the left's mind with teens having part-time jobs? While I agree with Senator Polnut on education empowering our youth, working provides valuable life experience that shouldn't be denied to 14 and 15 year olds that education can't totally provide.

Because this is not about empowering youth, this is about businesses being able to hire young people and slave-wage rates.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 01:14:12 AM »

There is nothing wrong with a teenager taking a job to earn money and acquire valuable skills. I had a summer job at age 14. I'll try to post a more detailed argument later but can the people denouncing this explain why they're so opposed to this?

And I don't know why this wouldn't have a chance at passing. Unlike some of my other bills, this isn't repealing a decades-old statute, just a bill passed in Atlasia like a year ago (probably less).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 02:38:24 AM »

Perhaps a more targetted approach then one that throws the barn door wide open then?
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TNF
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 08:04:44 AM »

Motion to table.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 01:20:46 PM »

I really wish Senators would submit legislation that has a hope of passing.

Enabling child labour is not empowering them. What empowers youth is education, not being sent out to work.

What is wrong in the left's mind with teens having part-time jobs? While I agree with Senator Polnut on education empowering our youth, working provides valuable life experience that shouldn't be denied to 14 and 15 year olds that education can't totally provide.

Because this is not about empowering youth, this is about businesses being able to hire young people and slave-wage rates.

That is where you have it all wrong. Be open to Deus's more detailed argument that is soon in coming.
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bore
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2014, 03:25:35 PM »

I would be open to allowing like 3 or 4 hours a week for 14-15 year olds, but we mustn't get in a position where work becomes an obligation for the child.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2014, 07:06:50 PM »

I would be open to allowing like 3 or 4 hours a week for 14-15 year olds, but we mustn't get in a position where work becomes an obligation for the child.

I agree with this. I have no problem with younger teens having summer jobs and the like, but throwing the entire statute out and removing all restrictions would create the unfortunate situation where 8th and 9th grade children of struggling families would be forced to forgo educational opportunities (and thus be stuck in long-term poverty) in order to help provide for the family.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 05:21:03 AM »

Yeah, Bore's and BK's position seems reasonable. We could amend the act in question so that includes provisions for them to work that number of hours per week, but that it could maybe bo put together so he works in a summer job four weeks thirty hours or whatever, but then is not allowed to work for an amount of weeks, until he has enough "not worked" hours to come up with the seventy hours or whatever he worked too much in summer... I hope you can understand what I wrote there, I can't find an easier way for me to put it Tongue

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2014, 07:03:30 AM »

Most countries have a cut-off of 14 years and nine months (give or take).

As long as there are very clear parameters, maximum hours and minimum rates of pay and conditions.

I believe it's important to give kids an understanding of the dignity of work. I will not do anything that enables workplaces to hire young people because of lower pay and conditions.

A young person's priority should be their education, we cannot allow a situation where kids sacrifice their opportunities for a better life in the long-term.
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windjammer
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2014, 11:31:54 AM »

Hmmm,

I don't like the idea of a 14 years old already working.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2014, 11:33:06 AM »

Most countries have a cut-off of 14 years and nine months (give or take).

As long as there are very clear parameters, maximum hours and minimum rates of pay and conditions.

I believe it's important to give kids an understanding of the dignity of work. I will not do anything that enables workplaces to hire young people because of lower pay and conditions.

A young person's priority should be their education, we cannot allow a situation where kids sacrifice their opportunities for a better life in the long-term.


That I think we can find come common ground on.
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TNF
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2014, 03:06:45 PM »

I'm *shocked* to see our resident 'moderates' endorse child labor. Roll Eyes
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bore
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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2014, 03:47:47 PM »

For comparison, in Britain people from the age of 13 can get paper rounds and here is a list of all the jobs a 14 year old can get.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2014, 03:55:01 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2014, 03:59:57 PM by Senator Polnut »

I'm *shocked* to see our resident 'moderates' endorse child labor. Roll Eyes

That's a very mild reaction for you.

It's not like child labour and working at a video/book/grocery store for a couple of hours after school. So if an amended Bill clarified the existing arrangements, it would be considered. But I won't support lowering the age below that standard of 14 years, 9 months.

I also won't support the original Bill as I won't support the repeal of portions an Act that protected children from exploitation and made sure business owners and parents didn't see kids as cheap labour or didn't prioritise education.  So this needs a LOT of clarification and amendment.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2014, 12:07:38 PM »

I'll just go on and provide this amendment:

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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2014, 05:59:24 PM »
« Edited: November 25, 2014, 06:51:20 PM by Senator JCL and the geologist »

Sections three and five will need amended before I can give this bill my full support. Section five would have a teenager getting better pay (in a restaurant) than the typical adult resturant employee.

19.00*25.00 = 475 for a teenage part time employee
25*10 = 250 for a full time adult employee

That's during the five week summers they're allowed such hours.

If a teen does that just once that will give the teen an annual income of 5,952.00$ Atlasian Dollars. With the lion share of that being made in the summer. If a teen does it twice they make 7,942.00 AD. If you add even that for the Christmas/Winter break it will exceed the average income of a full time adult in the same position not including potential paid vacation benefits. Allowing such a high minimum wage would be highly damaging to adults trying to maintain hours worked for those benefits to work most effectively.

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windjammer
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2014, 06:08:44 PM »

Hostile.

Two oppositions from this amendment:
1) The first is that Ii really oppose child labor in any form. I don't believe a 15-years-old, someone whodoesn't have the legal age of majority, should work. They should focuse on their study. If they absolutely need money, I would prefer helping their parents by child allowance, etc,...
2) I would like the federal minimum wage to be respected. Ii don't see why these people should get a higher minimum wage than the other workers.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 06:41:15 PM »

Cranberry's amendment is friendly.
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bore
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2014, 06:42:05 PM »

Senators, a vote is open on Senator Cranberry's amendment

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Sponsor: Cranberry
Status: Objection by windjammer
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